Electric power steering pump for retrofit?

[TxCajun]

My '66 C10 has a 250 six cylinder with three-speed on the column shifter.

I'm considering changing the manual steering to power steering. I don't mind the steering effort, but would like to have fewer turns lock-to-lock.

I've been investigating using an electric power steering pump rather than trying to find the pulleys and brackets required for mounting a conventional power steering pump on the six cylinder engine. I'm also planning to add AC at some point, so this would leave engine mounting and pulley space free for the AC compressor.

Just for experimenting, I picked up a 2007 Volvo S40 electric power steering pump at a pick-a-part today for $39. There's plenty of room in the engine compartment for this, but I also think it could mount in the fender-well behind the drive side headlight for a cleaner look.

Has anyone tried adapting one of these pumps to drive a C10 power steering box?
.

[The Rocknrod]

First I've seen.

[Rob Fisher]

I looked at doing this conversion but opted out.
There are other cars that use them as well like the Chrysler 300.
They do draw alot of power so wiring is important.
The EV conversion guys use them alot.
Check on YouTube.
There are a number of videos showing the conversion.

[61hawk]

Well... perfect. Just when I was convinced to go with the electric steering route and realizing that I'm going to have to cry when I see the bill I now read about Option 3. Now I'll be watching and researching this for the next six weeks and still not have any idea of which way I'm going to go.

EDIT TO UPDATE:
Just spent the past few hours watching videos and reading forums. It sounds like Volvo is the way to go, and you can mount it anywhere it'll fit... one guy installed his in the trunk and ran lines to the engine compartment. Things I've learned, you only need three wires... Constant Power, Constant Ground (2 wire plug), and one of the three wires on the 3-wire plug goes to keyed power, you don't use the other two wires. The other two wires go to a can bus computer box... but nobody so far has been able to hack the system to figure it out. But you don't need it unless you intend on doing a bunch of quick left and right turns, regular street driving is fine. Without the can bus wires hooked up it just goes into limp mode (70%) which is fine for street driving. It takes about 3 seconds initially on start up for the pump relay to kick in, this can be bypassed by putting in a dedicated pump switch if you wish. The Toyota MR2 and Mazda 5 power steering units seem to require a can bus in order to work... most give up on them and go with the Volvo unit. The Volvo unit does run around 70 amps so you'll want to put an 80 amp breaker/fuse in the Constant Power line. Also will want to bump up to a 100+ amp alternator. The 70 amps is only at start up and full lock from what I'm reading, otherwise it uses less than 10 amps. They have two styles of reservoirs, one with a cap and one with a remote filler... apparently the only difference is the reservoir style, the pump and wiring are identical. I'm going to look for the one with the remote filler, and try and hide the pump somewhere out of sight.

[ACK]

Would you keep us updated on the electric steering pump install as you make progress, this is very interesting.

[61hawk]

I went to Pull-A-Part/Destroy-A-Car and picked this up this morning. 2006 Volvo S40. Got the two wiring harnesses and the mounting bracket. There was a drifting guy there looking too, but he didn't want the remote filler, I did. $35.

It won't be a quick install, I'm still in the rebuilding stage and my engine and transmission are 160 miles away and not sure when they'll be down here.

[61hawk]

Cleaned up.

[TxCajun]

61hawk,

I think you have found a lot of the same information that I discovered through interweb searching.

One good forum article (Mustangs) that had a lot of detail information and part numbers is: https://www.corral.net/threads/volvo...te-up.2499503/

Regarding pump location, a couple of writers did recommend keeping the pump as close to the steering gear box as possible, saying that otherwise it felt sluggish possibly due to hydraulic losses through a long pressure feed hose. I think there might be room in the wheel well in front of the tire next to the gearbox, but a splash shield would need to be fabricated.

I have not been able to find any information on the specific output of the Volvo pump regarding pressure and flow. The applications these are being retrofitted on seem to all be rack and pinion (such as in the Volvo or the drift cars). I'm interested how this compares to the power steering boxes used on our trucks. I found this generic information on a Motortrend site: "Most steering gear applications would run between 1,100-1,300 psi with heavy vehicle high-demand applications on up to 1,550-1,600 psi. Rack-and-pinion steering, on the other hand, is generally happier at a lower operating pressure of 850-950 psi."

My truck is mechanically rebuilt, but now going through rust and body repair so it may be awhile before it is on the road. I'm thinking of going ahead and installing a power steering gear box and mocking this up with hoses and the pump to at least power it up and test it statically.
.

[61hawk]

Most likely, unfortunately just about everything I have found is drifters, which is surprising. Even the guy at Pull-A-Part was looking for one for his drifting car. I didn't even know that was a thing around here. My truck is bare from the firewall forward so I don't have a clue where to try and mount this. I was even thinking that there may be space in front of the radiator support but don't know.

My truck is a little different, it's mostly stock but I'm going with a 331 Hemi and Torqueflite 727 transmission... just because I had both laying around from a previous project that I lost interest in and sold the car. This truck was started about 14 years ago... and then lost interest in it for about 10 years and have just recently started back on it. If I had to do it over I'd probably look into dumping an LS engine into it.

I started out planning on going with regular power steering until I couldn't find a P/S mount for my engine. Then I was set on going full electric power steering, I even started looking at it again hard the past few weeks and have been talking to Flaming River. Then I saw this thread about Volvo electric motors so now I'm thinking about taking my manual box off the truck and putting the power steering box back on. Since I had everything else and I was able to get the rookie at the checkout who rang it up as a regular P/S pump I got it for $25 + $4 core charge plus tax so I only have about $35 into it. Who brings a core back to Pull-A-Part, and why would they want it?

[The Rocknrod]

Power Steering Adapter Plate - http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vboa...d.php?t=332923

[61hawk]

Just trying to figure out where this could be mounted. The size is approximately 12" tall and 7" x 7" around. Wonder if there is room to the left of the radiator or is there enough room between the grill and radiator support?

[61hawk]

The first forum thread where I found someone installed it in a vintage vehicle. Looks like he mounted it in the wheel well of his Mustang.

https://www.vintage-mustang.com/thre...-epas.1187449/

EDIT: Another one in a Mopar, with several others posting their pictures:
https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar...racuda.486613/

One in a Corvette:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-steering.html

How about in a Studebaker (very good write up):
https://forum.studebakerdriversclub....-pump-in-stude

[jayoldschool]

Why not eliminate the pump all together and go with shaft mounted electric assist? FF to about 3:15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpZkHs4Y5Ko

[61hawk]

Originally Posted by jayoldschool

Why not eliminate the pump all together and go with shaft mounted electric assist? FF to about 3:15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpZkHs4Y5Ko

That's what I was looking at before the Volvo suggestion came up. It's not as simple as it sounds.

- I'd prefer to keep a column shift, to go EPAS you can not have any linkage in the steering column. The only thing you can have is the steering column in the tube. Floor shift is the only option.

- Have you looked at how much room you have to work with under the dash? You have about 10" of space between the brake pedal/emergency brake bracket/steering column bracket and the firewall. The steering column is at about a 60 degree angle, which lessens the distance to put a 7" motor in the 10:00 to 2:00 location.

I was working with Flaming River up until last week on doing exactly this, they would build a system with my measurements, if the measurements were off... well I'd have a $2000 column I couldn't use. I've talked to Ididit and EPAS and they said the same thing. Apparently nobody in a 60-66 Chevy truck has done this and none of them seemed interested to work with me to get a setup that would work. The last thing I was working on was I think I could get a 17" Flaming River column and using a coupler attach their $1400 motor unit to it... then have to figure out how to brace the lower portion where it goes through the firewall. The other option is going on the engine side if the firewall, but then there's not a whole lot of room there either to mount the motor.

I'm using a 331 Hemi engine, I don't have a place to mount a belt driven P/S pump because these engines came with a generator with the P/S mounted to the back half of the generator... a shaft went all the way through the generator and turned the P/S pump. It wouldn't be that big of a deal if I was running a manual box and original sized tires... but running basically 31" x 10.5" tires it's going to be like turning Fred Flinstone's car at a dead stop.

[cwcarpenter98]

There might be enough space in front of the driver's wheel between the inner and outer fender. Since it has a separate fluid container, you could run the hose through the inner fender so that you can access the fill cap under the hood instead of under the fender

[61hawk]

Originally Posted by cwcarpenter98

There might be enough space in front of the driver's wheel between the inner and outer fender. Since it has a separate fluid container, you could run the hose through the inner fender so that you can access the fill cap under the hood instead of under the fender

Hopefully. I have one with the remote filler, and I just found this tonight... which would look good under the hood. 1968-73 Chevy Big Block Remote P/S Reservoir.

[1971 GMC SHORTY]

I’ve Used Mini Cooper Electric Power Steering Pumps I’ve Wired Them It don’t Turn On Till You turn Wheel So It’s Not Always on, we’ve Used Them On Blind Drive Stunt Vehicles And They Have Plenty Of Power

[Arne]

I figured I'd post this here as well as in the other threads I've added on to, as you never know how someone might search for info on this.

I decided to use one of the Volvo electric pumps with the rack & pinion conversion I just completed. The truck is a '64.

I sliced and diced the original Volvo brackets to mount inside the LF fender. One new 5/16" hole in the frame rail was required. Plenty of room, no clearance issues at all. The pump sits on its 3 original rubber mounts, and the brackets and the mount cradle are solid.

The return line is a standard slip-fit, the pressure line is M16x1.5. There are several ways to adapt that to -6 AN for easily available hoses. The simplest is an M16 banjo adapter, such as these. The 90° fitting is helpful for hose routing.

The pump has an audible whine, but you can't hear it from the cab when the engine is running, even at idle with the window open. The fixed 70% boost that the pump provides when not computer controlled is just about right. Easy to turn my big 275/60 tires when going slow, but not over-boosted at normal road speeds. Building the custom mount was the most difficult part, but really not that bad.

Pictures:

Mounted in the fender.





From the front and below, wheels straight.



And with the wheels at full right lock. The spot circled is the closest, but not as close as it looks. There is at least 1½" clearance at that spot, and that is with big 275/60 tires.



Hope this helps others.

[Arne]

FWIW, it was pointed out in one of my other threads that this spot probably won't work for the more common square body steering box conversion. The pump will work fine, but will need to be mounted elsewhere.

[61hawk]

Originally Posted by Arne

FWIW, it was pointed out in one of my other threads that this spot probably won't work for the more common square body steering box conversion. The pump will work fine, but will need to be mounted elsewhere.

Having tested it where it sits now, how do you think it would work if mounted elsewhere, say on the frame behind the cab? It's probably 3-4 more feet of hose. I've seen photos of Mustangs mounting them in the trunk. I'm guessing once the system is purged it wouldn't make any difference... just a lot more fluid.

[Arne]

Originally Posted by 61hawk

Having tested it where it sits now, how do you think it would work if mounted elsewhere, say on the frame behind the cab? It's probably 3-4 more feet of hose. I've seen photos of Mustangs mounting them in the trunk. I'm guessing once the system is purged it wouldn't make any difference... just a lot more fluid.

That's my thought as well. The drift crowd all mount them in the trunk, and they seem to work fine. Another possibility would be to use the passenger side fender, and run hoses across and under the radiator.

The pump runs at 70% with the 3-wire install, but you can get a variable controller on eBay that plugs right in, to set it anywhere from 0% to 100%. So if 70% isn't enough with more hose, you could crank it higher with one of those controllers.

[61hawk]

Cool, other than the manual speed knob he's come up with a GPS version so it'll run like factory.
https://www.brunosteering.com/produc...ontroller-kit/

[Braunschweiger]

What's not there, great thing.
Thanks for the information.

[Arne]

Just a quick update after driving my truck with this system for a while. While I understood from the drift crowd that a 40 amp fuse was "probably" sufficient, it is not. The pump draws the most current at start up, and when the steering is at full lock. The 40 amp fuse I installed with 10 ga. wire for the power supply was good enough for the start up load, but would it would occasionally pop the fuse at full lock. I've upgraded the power supply to an 8 ga. wire with a 60 amp Maxi-fuse and have had no more problems. The 8 ga. wire might work with a 50 amp Maxi-fuse as well. But 40 amps is definitely not enough.