'01 crown vic front on '49?

[semn49]

I have a '49 chevy pickup that I'm modding. I had a front end that I got out of an '03 Crown Victoria, it has an aluminum cradle IFS.
How close is this suspension to the mustang II (in other words could I get a mII crossmember and use the CV parts on it)?
I've already narrowed up the aluminum cradle but it is gonna take some doing to get it sitting right.
Any thought or sugestions?

[NONHOG]

Hey thats pretty cool. This was discussed in the 47-59 section some time ago.
Not sure if that thread will help with your question.
I am wondering whats your plan on steering, box? rack? if rack will you just try and find a shorter one than the vic?

Nice work!

[semn49]

Yeah, I thought I would go with a rack. Maybe one out of a 'stang?

I'll search the archives.

[918733]

that is an 03 up crown vic front end

[smashingchuck]

OK, I'm a little confused. What exactly are you wanting to do? I mean, if you use a mustang II crossmember, i don't see what you are going to salvage from the one you already have there? Are you wanting to abandon the CV parts all together or what?

[semn49]

Well the salvage yard I got it out of said '01 and up parts would fit, so just going on what they said. I'm far from a ford expert.Thanks for the input.

As far as what I am trying to do..... well I look at this frontend and thought that, given the price and a little skill/luck, it could be modified to fit under my '49 chevy 1/2 ton.
Beings how it (the crossmember itself) was too wide just to slide in and bolt to the frame, I narrowed it up by 7.5".
Now, because the frame of the '49 is tapered in and curves down, the front doesn't sit level with the frame. So I am probably going to make spacers to line everything up. BUT before I do that I just thought I would throw it out there to see if anyone had ever done this before, or if someone knew measurements comparing the Crown Vic A-arm mounting points to the Mustang. I don't have a mustang II crossmember but thought about buying one and experimenting. You can stip the aluminum CV crossmember down to just the crossmember, so you could use just the a-arms coils shocks and everything outboard from there(I think).

[semn49]

I stand corrected! It is a '03 and up front end!

Sorry for the(my) confusion!

[danco]

How are u doing with this install?Want to do the same but have in mind widening the frame.What do think about that?
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[semn49]

It's still in progress. I haven't had much time to work on it lately with work and all.
I made up some tubes/spacers that I will weld to the frame and then will be able to bolt the crossmember in.
I'll try to get someics of the progress.

Would I do this again? Probably not.Easier to just go with MII stuff.

[danco]

Would it not have been easier to build up the frame to the desired witdh?
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[project 67 sub]

it looks like it would have been to wide if he would have done that, it looks close to the fenders as it is now....

[semn49]

Originally Posted by danco

Would it not have been easier to build up the frame to the desired witdh?
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The overall width would be too wide.
When I narrowed up the aluminum subfame of thje CV I cut about 7" out of it. That gave me the right width to fit my stock frame right at the inside of the crossmember, also giving me the desired width so my tires wouldn't set outside of my fenders.

[danco]

Do you need to adjust anything else?Is there not a swaybar or something?I gather that the CV steering will not fit in there either.I just like this option because it is cheaper(I think) than others.I am willing to do what you did if shortening it and adapting it to the frame is all major operations that need to be done.Wonder if the rear end of the CV will work for the AD.I have a 53 3600
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[semn49]

Originally Posted by danco

Do you need to adjust anything else?Is there not a swaybar or something?I gather that the CV steering will not fit in there either.I just like this option because it is cheaper(I think) than others.I am willing to do what you did if shortening it and adapting it to the frame is all major operations that need to be done.Wonder if the rear end of the CV will work for the AD.I have a 53 3600
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I'll worry about the swaybar later, it will have to be customized. I'm hoping a MII rack will work, or get a custom one.
As far as cheaper, if you shop around you can get a complete hub to hub MII front for as cheap as $1200, that's everything. If you don't have the Crown Vic stuff already you have to buy that or a donner car. Is your time worth anything? My truck would probably be on the road now had I went MII !
I have a Ford Explorer rear as the CV one is way too wide.

[andrewmp6]

The 03 and up is the only years with the alum crossmember that unbolts the earlier years the crossmember is welded to the frame.The good about it the 94 up mustang rims fit it there is wilwood brakes for it and it can be air bagged easy there is brackets out there for it but you gotta rig up your own shocks if you do bag it.

[semn49]

Ok, a little update.

I have the custom crossmember brackets all welded in, and the crossmember bolted to it. I set the motor in to get an idea how everything will sit. Next I'll have to make brackets for the trailing(?) arms.





I have it all set up so that if I really screwed this up I can still cut it all out and not mess up the factory frame/mounts.

[hyatt]

My 2 cents says Scrap the whole ft end By the time you get it lowered and adapt a rack to it and you might have a hard time getting a rack that all the pivot point align If they dont align you will have terrible bump steer Pick a tried and true ft end that You know will work out and drive right

[semn49]

Originally Posted by hyatt

My 2 cents says Scrap the whole ft end By the time you get it lowered and adapt a rack to it and you might have a hard time getting a rack that all the pivot point align If they dont align you will have terrible bump steer Pick a tried and true ft end that You know will work out and drive right

Yeah, I can still go that route. But I'm so close now with this that I'll continue on.

Actually the mounts for the C.V. rack are still on the crossmember, hence they are aligned. It'll just take a little salvage yard hunting to measure a few different racks, I'm thinking mustang or maybe Fairmont?

When it's all messed up I'll be sure to post up so's ya'll can flame me!

[hyatt]

The mount points are not the problem Your upper a arm ,lower a arm, and tierod pivit points must all be in same line or when you go over a bump the wheels will go in and out of alignment

[semn49]

Originally Posted by hyatt

The mount points are not the problem Your upper a arm ,lower a arm, and tierod pivit points must all be in same line or when you go over a bump the wheels will go in and out of alignment

Yup, I understand what "bump steer" is. In relationship to each other none of that has changed.

[semn49]

[NONHOG]

Looking good! Can (if you have time) you get some measurements?
A arms from the frame rails out. Maybe the width where it mounts to the frame?
No bigs if you don't have time. Keep up the nice work!

[Cwcorbin]

Any updates to this thread? This is exactly what I intend to do for my project, narrowing the crown vic front suspension. Given my limited knowledge of bump steer and geometries involved, that the lengths of available rack and pinion units would dictate the amount of narrowing you would do. Seem like you should find the narrower rack first, then narrow the suspension unit to match the inner tie rod join overall width, and then make the frame fit the suspension unit. Here is a pic from Longacre...



It's their statement that "...the inner tie rod end must intersect line 2..." that kind of makes me think the available racks set the first dimension. Line 2 is slanted, which means that you could move the rack vertically and get some adjustment, as the higher the rack, the wider distance there is between line 2 intersect points. Of course at some point you will get into the oil pan.

Let me know how you did it and how it's working please? Updates UPDATES!

Craig

[semn49]

Well, I haven't had much free time so the project has kind of stalled out.

I am not totally sure this will work either. Basically if you strip this front crossmember down to just the crossmember itself you end up with something that looks very similar to what you get when you buy a a crossmember from an aftermarket company. The A-arms, spindles, coils, etc, from a Crown Vic. look like the same as ones used on a Mustang II, although they are, I'm sure, not the same dimensions. So I think a MII rack may work.

The upper pivot point and the inner piovot point have not changed. I agree, the instant center point, by narrowing the crossmember, will be closer together in relation to the opposite side, hence the narrower rack (MII as compared to a CV).


That being said, I may end up just scrapping the whole idea and going with an aftermarket system.

I should also add. I am not an engineer of any kind, I do not recommend that anyone do this modification. It is only an experiment and all material, photos and dimensions in this thread should not be used by anyone but trained professionals. Do not try this at home!

[khan1369]

hmm. Why not make your own steel cross-member that fits the frame, but using the same exact mounting points and style for the control arms? It would take some careful measurements so that the geometry between the upper and lower control arms remains identical to the original Crown Vic. You would also need to fabricate an upper strut mount that is in the same location as the upper strut mount on the Crown Vic cross-member.

I am actually thinking about doing this exact same build. I can get all the suspension components minus the aluminum cross-member and rack, but including the arms, spindles, hubs, calipers and rotors for under $200.

From what I can see, this will lover my truck around 5", and the cross-member's lowest point will still be higher that the lowest point of the frame under the cab (a-la-drop member) and will cost me much much less.

Proper measurements and a little fabrication and you can go to any parts store for steering knuckles, hubs, control arms, and brake parts. Plus it would be much easier to mount a shorter rack and weld on new mounts wherever the new rack needs them. I suggest something like the ford escort rack (shorter and still strong).

Money wise this would save a lot, as long as you are a decent welder.