More on EVs from a guy trying to sell them

[62c30]

Originally Posted by Accelo

2023 was an awful year for EV's.
They grew 45%

I understand no one want's to be told what to do.
My belief is Efficiency will prevail in the end.
Remember the mandate was for cars, not trucks.
There are a lot of people that EV's do work for.

And if you live in an area were it gets below 0 deg F you shouldn't have an elect car as your only transportation.
If you can't charge at home maybe an elect car isn't for you.

No oil changes, no O2 sensors, no exhaust, no radiator, no fuel injectors, no engine air cleaner, no plugs or wires, no transmission, so it can't fail. Brakes last for over 100K because 95% of the regeneration slows the car and they are not needed. The list goes on.

One thing a ICE car can not do it turn a down hill back to fuel. Elect vehicles do this with ease. So even if a ICE car was 95% efficient, and they are closer to 20%, the elect vehicle would be more efficient because the ability to turn potential energy into fuel.
The more you drive the more the price per mile goes down.

No one want to pay more to travel than required.

Car and Driver found: So, by our calculations this makes the electric F-150 $2664 cheaper to own and operate over the first three years than its gas counterpart—and that’s without the tax credit. With it, it’s a substantial $10,164 less in three years of driving.
Plus, as the years progress the lower costs of operating an electric vehicle (fuel and maintenance) continue to accrue.
So is owning an EV cheaper in the long run? All signs point to possibly. Maybe. Sometimes. But as we said, at this point in time, it’s complicated.

Not sure on what all maintenance or others items they included on the F150. I have a 4 year old F150 with about 62k on it. $70 oil change at the dealer ever 5,000 miles, engine air filter and cabin filter about once a year. Original tires and brakes. So I've spent about $1,000 in 4 years. Tires might have another 10-12,000 miles left in them. Tires will probably be around a $1000. I wonder how many miles I could get out of tires on a Lightning? From what I've heard is EV's go through tires every 15,000-25,000 miles. An extra set of tires by now would cost more than the maintenance I've already spent.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by 62c30

I wonder how many miles I could get out of tires on a Lightning? From what I've heard is EV's go through tires every 15,000-25,000 miles. An extra set of tires by now would cost more than the maintenance I've already spent.

I'd guess the tire wear is due to vehicle weight, and maybe taking advantage of all that torque by rocketing away traffic lights! I see where some tires are being marketed as EV tires.

OK, I just read that EV tires are constructed with reinforced mesh to handle extra weight and high torque. So I was actually right! That's once this week.

[TotallyHucked]

Originally Posted by 71CHEVYSHORTBED402

I watched a study of what seemed to be on the level and honest. It demonstrated how EV are actually worse for the environment until I don't recall what it was, somewhere around 60-70K on the odometer. Then EV demonstrates an environmental advantage. That's if we assume they last that long of course, to me EV are throw away vehicles, designed to be replaced.

And what vehicle continued to be the most environmental friendly? That would be the Toyota Prius. Props Toyota, great company.

To me that means why bother with EV when you can have a hybrid that's far more convenient? That is, unless you want to go 0-60 in 3ish seconds.

This has been my argument from the minute the government started talking about mandating it. Before that, Teslas were just kind of a gimmicky thing. Pure EV's make no sense for most people, but a hybrid that can still be driven purely on the gas engine (or at least the gas engine makes enough power to propel the car even with a dead battery) makes all the sense in the world. I have a buddy that has 3 NBS trucks (one an 8.1 big block), a supercharged 6.2 LS powered C10 and a couple other cars. He DD's a prius because it's the best of both worlds. No range anxiety, minimal maintenance and he fills up like twice a month driving 6-800mi. The only downside is repair cost on anything battery related. He junked his last one and just bought another due to battery issues. But these are ~2008 models? So they're cheap

[weq92f]

.

Lately I've been following some trends in this market and find that things don't look so good for the manufacturers...

o Inventory of EVs at dealerships is stacking up...overflowing in some places

o Inventory of new, non-EV vehicles is stacking up...overflowing in some places

o Consumer demand is low on both fronts

o Manufacturers are spending huge on advertising trying to push both products with little success.

What will happen when their advertising fails to increase consumer demand?...lower prices **shriek** !!

-klb

[72c20customcamper]

Prices are stupid on all new vehicles. Yes the new Dodge Laramie 3500 4x4 diesel has more amenities than my 07 . But it’s nearly 3 times what I paid for mine .

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by 72c20customcamper

Prices are stupid on all new vehicles. Yes the new Dodge Laramie 3500 4x4 diesel has more amenities than my 07 . But it’s nearly 3 times what I paid for mine .

Things got real tarded since COVID, vehicles a great example. That 80K is about 4x the rate of inflation. What a Dodge cost in 1971? 3K in 71 is 23K today. 10 zillion amenities don't impress me, I stopped at A/C.

[Accelo]

Jeep just announced price cuts. Some models received upgrades without a price change.
Demand is down, except some vehicles like the Ford Maverick.

[68bowtie]

Originally Posted by 71CHEVYSHORTBED402

10 zillion amenities don't impress me

Exactly!!!

I understand the production efficiency thing, but I wish I could add or delete ANY option.

[72c20customcamper]

Originally Posted by 71CHEVYSHORTBED402

Things got real tarded since COVID, vehicles a great example. That 80K is about 4x the rate of inflation. What a Dodge cost in 1971? 3K in 71 is 23K today. 10 zillion amenities don't impress me, I stopped at A/C.

I really don’t compare a 70s vehicle to anything newer . They were built with very low tech minimal safety features and really were somewhat dangerous. I love them but you can’t compare them

If they made a 71 dodge truck just the way they were I sure as hell wouldn’t pay 23k for it

[truckster]

Originally Posted by 72c20customcamper

I really don’t compare a 70s vehicle to anything newer . They were built with very low tech minimal safety features and really were somewhat dangerous. I love them but you can’t compare them

I compare everything to my 72 Blazer. It all comes up lacking. My wife and daughter both drive hybrids. They beep to tell you when they're ready to go. My Blazer roars to life and says, "Let's go!"

[67 twins]

Originally Posted by 72c20customcamper

I really don’t compare a 70s vehicle to anything newer . They were built with very low tech minimal safety features and really were somewhat dangerous. I love them but you can’t compare them

If they made a 71 dodge truck just the way they were I sure as hell wouldn’t pay 23k for it

I wouldn't pay that for a 71 Dodge either, but I would pay that for a brand new 71 Chevy truck.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by 67 twins

I wouldn't pay that for a 71 Dodge either, but I would pay that for a brand new 71 Chevy truck.

Ha ha, you wish. While today's new trucks are WAY WAY WAY over-priced, a real good old is worth more. Good classics beat inflation too, by a lot.

[MikeB]

Wow! A whopping $1,100 discount (1.2%) on that new $89,000 Dodge truck. What a deal!

Just give me a Tacoma, Colorado, or GMC Canyon -- the mid-level versions.

[72c20customcamper]

Originally Posted by 67 twins

I wouldn't pay that for a 71 Dodge either, but I would pay that for a brand new 71 Chevy truck.

If they made a crap load of them ours wouldn’t be worth squat . And if you wanted a comparable 2024 to most of our trucks it’s about 37k and I’m sure right now you could get a very good discount I’m actually considering looking for one . Lower it put some nice wheels and tires . 9000 lbs towing capacity

[72c20customcamper]

Pretty spot on not being political and they are building more everyday

[MikeB]

I think the Chinese communists are laughing their asses off at the US, Canada, UK, and Western Europe for spending billions trying to slow climate change, when China, India, Eastern Europe, and rest of world are doing little to nothing.

Had humans existed on Earth millions of years ago, I have to wonder what civilization would have thought when the ice that covered north American melted, and seas turned to deserts. OMG, it must be caused by emissions from by camp fires and funeral pyres! To save the world, we must use the sun's heat to keep us warm, and bury our dead instead of burning them. Those actions, for certain, will keep the earth from changing. And we must sacrifice to the gods all those humans who do not comply.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by TotallyHucked

He DD's a prius because it's the best of both worlds. No range anxiety, minimal maintenance and he fills up like twice a month driving 6-800mi. The only downside is repair cost on anything battery related. He junked his last one and just bought another due to battery issues. But these are ~2008 models? So they're cheap

My brother gave me his 2007 Prius with a blown head gasket several years ago. I put a wrecking yard engine in it and have put 80,000 more miles on it. At 16 years old, the hybrid battery started to go on it so I recently replaced the battery with a new one from a startup company that makes cell kits for about $1800. It's a dumb looking slow car, but I actually like it a lot just because I can drive all over the place in it without stressing about the cost of gas. It gets 45 MPG.

For some reason, that car brings out the worst in other drivers. I had a guy in a lifted truck push me off the road so that he could race past and merge in front of me on a freeway on-ramp, and then he threw his coffee at me and it splattered all over my hood.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by pjmoreland

My brother gave me his 2007 Prius with a blown head gasket several years ago. I put a wrecking yard engine in it and have put 80,000 more miles on it. At 16 years old, the hybrid battery started to go on it so I recently replaced the battery with a new one from a startup company that makes cell kits for about $1800. It's a dumb looking slow car, but I actually like it a lot just because I can drive all over the place in it without stressing about the cost of gas. It gets 45 MPG.

For some reason, that car brings out the worst in other drivers. I had a guy in a lifted truck push me off the road so that he could race past and merge in front of me on a freeway on-ramp, and then he threw his coffee at me and it splattered all over my hood.

This kind of rage belongs in a cage until it calms down.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by 72c20customcamper

And if you wanted a comparable 2024 to most of our trucks, it’s about 37k and I’m sure right now you could get a very good discount I’m actually considering looking for one.

I know a guy who bought a very basic Chevy truck back around 2010. It was still on the dealer's lot when the 2011 models came out. I think he paid around $15K for it, honestly! It had the 4.8 with auto trans and A/C, and probably rubber floor mats.

I told him several times over the next few years to let me know if he ever wanted to sell the truck. Well, he sold it a few years ago without telling me!

[TimUK]

My wife has a Tesla 3 ( built in the same Fremont factory site as my C10). We bought it to replace an MDX. Prior to Covid, her monthly gas bill on her commute was $450....(that's when CA gas was cheaper....its close to $5 a gallon now).
We put 8kw of solar on the roof and a 40 amp charger in the garage. She has the same commute. Our true up bill with our utility is $1000 a year. That includes all the house power ( 2 A/c's, 2 furnaces etc). The Tesla has not been to a dealership in three years. The cabin air filter was changed by a Tesla mobile service vehicle at her office. Yes, the tires were replaced at 25000.
EV's have their place. My other vehicles are a 2010 Scion XB and the 71 C10.
To think that we should all be driving only electric vehicles is dumb. Our grid in CA struggles during the summer as it is. Right now the State wants to ban gas furnaces and gas ranges and switch everyone to electric. Don't get me started on that.....

[DeadheadNM]

Originally Posted by 72c20customcamper

Pretty spot on not being political and they are building more everyday

Also interesting that European CO2 emissions peaked in the 1970s.

"The European Union produced approximately 2.73 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide (GtCO₂) emissions in 2022. This was a slight decline in comparison to the previous year, down from 2.74 GtCO₂. The highest level of CO₂ emissions produced in the EU was in 1979, at 3.99 billion metric tons."

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by TimUK

Our grid in CA struggles during the summer as it is. Right now the State wants to ban gas furnaces and gas ranges and switch everyone to electric. Don't get me started on that.....

With exceptions for state buildings and politicians' homes, no doubt!

Where do those idiots expect electrical power to come from? Even ultra-liberal France has 50+ nukes.

I still remember Enron guys laughing at California for intentionally (and inexplicably) not locking-in low rates, and their dependence on the national grid for 25%-33% of their power. That was more than 20 years ago, and apparently CA politicians are still searching for a fairy dust solution.

[Accelo]

On 14 days during March, Arizona utilities got a gift from California: free solar power.

Well, actually better than free. California produced so much solar power on those days that it paid Arizona to take excess electricity its residents weren’t using to avoid overloading its own power lines.

It happened on eight days in January and nine in February as well. All told, those transactions helped save Arizona electricity customers millions of dollars this year, though grid operators declined to say exactly how much. And California also has paid other states to take power.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by 72c20customcamper

If they made a crap load of them ours wouldn’t be worth squat .

I don't drive my Blazer because of what it's worth. I drive it because it's fun. I haven't found anything new that's nearly as fun, and I can afford to drive just about anything I want.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Accelo

On 14 days during March, Arizona utilities got a gift from California: free solar power.

Well, actually better than free. California produced so much solar power on those days that it paid Arizona to take excess electricity its residents weren’t using to avoid overloading its own power lines.

It happened on eight days in January and nine in February as well. All told, those transactions helped save Arizona electricity customers millions of dollars this year, though grid operators declined to say exactly how much. And California also has paid other states to take power.

Then why do we hear about utilities asking EV owners to charge only during off-peak hours? Maybe it's a feast or famine kinda deal, depending on hours of sunshine.

This seems be a non-biased/apolitical article on what it will take to meet California's future demand: https://calmatters.org/environment/2...ric-cars-grid/

And this is a good explanation of what happens when demand is low. (Probably written in the EU or some other area that uses 50Hz instead of 60Hz.)

If the question is .If the solar farm or panel can provide more current than the load demands .. then the answer is nothing .. no extra power is produced. The panels rise marginally in voltage and then when the sun's intensity drops its photo current drops back a little. The panels don't even get any warmer when power is not being produced ..and the voltage doesn't even rise much.

If the question is what does the Grid do if it gets more power to it than it can use. .. Well that depends, and the short term solution is to drive the excess into those huge generator turbines in hydro power stations so that they are rotating marginally faster ..so the 50 Hz goes to 50.5 Hz The same happens with Wind turbines. Likewise a very short term deficit is recovered by letting the turbines slow down. That gives the operational staff time to either open or close suice gates, or increase fuel to a gas turbine . The Solar farms are all linked into the same network as a component part.

Mike here again: You can't overload a power line if the demand is lower than the grid output. Power line current is a function of demand...period! Whoever wrote the article you quoted was misinformed.