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Old 01-27-2015, 12:20 AM   #1
buckroseau
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62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Getting ready to the pull the trigger on a power steering conversion on my 62 C20 with the stock 235 motor.

Attached a few pics, you will have to excuse the crappy Microsoft paint work. I picked up a power steering pump and sector out of an 86 Chevy 2wd c10 yesterday for $50 bucks. I am planning on fabbing a mount for the power steering pump directly above the generator. Plan on welding another pulley onto the generator pulley to drive the power steering pump directly above it.

Question: Will that generator size pulley drive the power steering pump to fast or to slow? I'm thinking it will drive it faster than the factory set up it came off of. If yes, does that matter?

2nd pic. I'm planning on ordering a plate and rag joint adapter from Captainfab. Where do I cut the steering shaft above the current rag joint?

Thanks in advance, Matt
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Old 01-27-2015, 01:53 AM   #2
Captainfab
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Driving the PS pump off of the generator is going to turn the pump slower that I would have been in it's original application.

The installation instructions that come with my power steering box adapter plate, give you a dimension where to cut if you are reusing the original flange. However since you will be using the tube and flange, I would cut the shaft 1-2" above that. The tube part of the tube and flange is 6" long.
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:17 AM   #3
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Looks to me like the belt speed stays the same from the one to the other. Generator speed or RPMs would be about twice as fast as the other pulleys depending upon the ratio of the diameters but the big pulleys would run approximately the same depending upon the ratio of their diameters. The bearing or bushing life of the generator might be shortened a bit though. Double crank pulley direct to the pump might be better if you could find one..
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Old 01-27-2015, 11:19 AM   #4
Jeff La
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

To me just mount it for a single belt and run a larger belt on all. It won't be that bad.
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Old 01-27-2015, 01:51 PM   #5
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainfab View Post
Driving the PS pump off of the generator is going to turn the pump slower that I would have been in it's original application.

The installation instructions that come with my power steering box adapter plate, give you a dimension where to cut if you are reusing the original flange. However since you will be using the tube and flange, I would cut the shaft 1-2" above that. The tube part of the tube and flange is 6" long.
this brings up a interesting question captainfab. I'd like to put power on my trk also. the alt. is already on the drivers side and putting the pump over there also seems like it would pull harder on the one side of the waterpump bushing.I think I can go off the crank but still seems like all the pressure is on one side. ya think it's ok or should a guy move the alt. to the pass. side ?
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Old 01-27-2015, 10:06 PM   #6
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

in my younger years I tried all the things you have suggested and all worked horribly , as far as I see you will need another pulley off the dampener and it run it down under the generator or high on the pass. side .....
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Old 01-27-2015, 11:01 PM   #7
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Decided to try using 1 belt for the whole thing. I didn't think the angle would be sharp enough to get much belt to wrap around the generator, but I think it will work. I'm going to mount the pump in a fixed position and use the generator as the tensioner. At least this way I know the pump is spinning at the correct rpm.

Playing around tonight with a piece of 18 ga. steel, fabbed up a mock bracket. It will change slightly, but this bracket will mount on the left thermostat housing bolt and the left water pump bolt. The same bolt that holds the tensioner bracket for the generator.

Going to try to round up some 3/16" flat stock tomorrow to make that bracket out of. Once that is mounted and tacked in I'm going to make a rear bracket. Thinking of mounting to the front manifold bolt.

We shall see......
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:08 AM   #8
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

All trucks '72 and earlier and cars '68 and earlier with a V8, had the power steering pump on the drivers side below the alternator. I believe Alan Grove Components makes a passenger side alternator bracket assembly for a small block with a short water pump. If you change to a long water pump, those factory brackets automatically move the alternator to the passenger side, but then that changes several things at the same time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by frankslagoon View Post
this brings up a interesting question captainfab. I'd like to put power on my trk also. the alt. is already on the drivers side and putting the pump over there also seems like it would pull harder on the one side of the waterpump bushing.I think I can go off the crank but still seems like all the pressure is on one side. ya think it's ok or should a guy move the alt. to the pass. side ?
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:58 AM   #9
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainfab View Post
All trucks '72 and earlier and cars '68 and earlier with a V8, had the power steering pump on the drivers side below the alternator. I believe Alan Grove Components makes a passenger side alternator bracket assembly for a small block with a short water pump. If you change to a long water pump, those factory brackets automatically move the alternator to the passenger side, but then that changes several things at the same time.
ok , honestly Cap. I wasn't sure they even put p/s on 63 down trks stock.
I know the heads didn't have the holes tapped for the new alt. brackets. there is a 67 or 68 Impala SS in the yard with alt. on the pass. side but old style heads. I'm gona score all that stuff one of these days before it gets crushed. the C word, huk. Anyway if GM is good with everything over on one side I quess I'm good to go. I don't want to go south on the thread, I'll talk to ya later about what type stock gear and pump work best with your adapters. thanks
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Old 01-28-2015, 02:09 AM   #10
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

there were 235 and 261 eng in cars that came equipped with p/s also
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:11 AM   #11
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

With double crank pulley on my 250 I put the pump above the alternator and I think that is the way they came out originally. Just had to modify a car bracket to fit because originals are becoming so scarce.

Even if you follow your original plan to run it off the generator pulley, which I think will work, you still have to find a way to mount the pump. It doesn't look like there are a lot of holes available to attach brackets to.

Maybe someone will post a picture of their 235/261 setup with power steering. Then at least you have a model to work from. We used to have a 261 3 on the tree 55 Chevy wagon but unfortunately no power steering.
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Old 01-28-2015, 11:51 AM   #12
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

I think the biggest issue you are going to have with a single belt setup is not enough wrap around the alt pulley and possibly the water pump. It could cause one or both to slip regardless of how tight you have the belt.

PS pumps have a very large load on them when in use. Almost all GM vehicles I have seen, that uses non ribbed belts, have the PS pump on it's own belt because of this.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:39 AM   #13
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Spent a couple hours messing around fabbing up a bracket for the power steering pump tonight. Cut the bracket out of some 3/16" flat stock. I welded a 3/8" i.d. machine bushing(s) on the back side of each hole. The thermostat housing has a slight recess in the house so the bushing is needed to space it out correctly. The bottom is needed, but more to keep the spacing the same. I will try to get some pics of that next time I take it off.

I clamped the pump on with a vice grip. Once I had it where I wanted it I tacked it in place. Then took it off and welded it up hard front and back.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:44 AM   #14
padresag
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

if you run them all on one belt, you are more than likely going to experience some slippage
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:49 AM   #15
buckroseau
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Took a piece of 3/16" x 1.25 flat stock. Bolted it up to the 2nd manifold bolt. Heated an area right above the bolt and did a bit of a custom bend over to the mount on the original pump bracket. After it was bent I cut the bracket and then made a tab, bolted it up and welded it up solid.

Pump is pretty rock solid now. Still plan on making a bracket from the top factory mount down to the base of the flat stock. Should really make it rock solid.

I don't think there will be a ton of belt contact on the generator pulley but it should still work.

Matt
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Old 01-31-2015, 12:48 AM   #16
buckroseau
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Thumbs up Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Spent about an hour finishing up my bracket tonight. Bent up another brace, bolted it up to the stock upper mount and then welded it to the base of the mount coming off the 2nd manifold bolt bracket I made yesterday. I have to say the pump is absolutely rock solid now.

Also got the new bracket and rag joint adapter from Captain fab today. Because of the 62 frame I will have to do tweaking but I think it should work.

Matt
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Old 01-31-2015, 01:00 AM   #17
jtrichard
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

ONE thing you may have a problem with in your "one belt method" is the very minimal belt contact on the FAN/WATER PUMP pulley (as it is on the "slack" side on the crank) BUT with only a four blade fan you might luck out..... other then that your bracketing looks GREAT
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Old 01-31-2015, 01:38 AM   #18
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

It wouldn't help with the contact on the water pump pulley, but an idler pulley could be installed between the generator and PS pump, if slippage proves to be a problem.
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Last edited by Captainfab; 05-25-2015 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 01-31-2015, 10:57 PM   #19
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

you may get away with it since the generator drives easier than an alternator.. You can also make it so the generator will adjust out more and that will help the belt contact ... When ever I tried doing the same thing ,I had an alternator...
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:04 AM   #20
buckroseau
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Spent some serious time on the power steering project today. Trying to take quite a few photo's of this. Not a ton of info on 62 and earlier installs.

As far as I can tell the stock steering box is the same as the 63 and later models. The blueprint I got from Captainfab with the plate I bought from him shows the stock holes. The plate pretty much laid over the top exactly like his template. I think the main difference is the width of the frame as you move towards the back...it gets narrower. As you can see in one of the pics the top rear hole on the plate, about half of it is above the frame.

Started off painting some marks on the frame of the steering shaft column line and the center shaft line of the steering box.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:11 AM   #21
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Not sure about other frames, but on this 62 C20 the frame is boxed in. Inside the frame there is internal bracing around the stock box holes. The hole I circled landed directly on the internal bracing. You can't see it that well but it is there. I wish I could say I had an easy way around this, but I didn't. I essentially stuck the cutting torch in the hole and blindly cut and melted the brace inside the frame.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:14 AM   #22
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

First pic is the holes all drilled. 2nd pic you can see the black line I drew on the inside of the frame with a marker. The upper front hole landed on an angled part of the frame on the back side. Should have pics of this later cut out.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:18 AM   #23
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Next set of pics pretty much describe it all. I used a 3/8" pipe nipple I had laying around. Cut and machined it in the lathe to 2.5". Making a bushing to weld into the frame. Used the gas axe to cut the area out where the bushing needs to go. Not pretty, but effective.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:25 AM   #24
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

I decided to make an internal reinforcement plate on the inside of the frame. I used a piece of 3/16" flat stock I had. I might have made it bigger, but this is all I had...actually worked great. I got everything bolted up and then welded it all up hard. You can see on the one pic that angled area on the inside of the frame I had to cut out. I also had to buy 3 - 4.5" 7/16" bolts to replace the ones that came with the kit. Since I was going through the entire frame I obviously needed longer ones.

This is as far as I got today. Hopefully more tomorrow.

Matt
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:40 AM   #25
buckroseau
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Re: 62 c20 power steering / 235 - need some smart people.

Quick question for the guru's.

Not sure what is inside this rubber joint just outside the firewall, some sort of universal joint I assume? I'm able to move it approx. 1 1/8" back and forth.

I haven't welded up the rag joint adapter to the steering shaft yet. Am I to assume I should find the middle area with this joint? I'm guessing it supposed to be able move a little bit in either direction?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks, Matt
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