AR WTB buddy bucket seat foam

[brossow]

Originally Posted by PT'S 70 CST

brossow I know there are many PUI vendors out there. What I was saying is if these buns are good quality buns and they measure up to the high $ ones then we need to get a board vendor to carry them. I would rather spend my $ here then on ebay.

Thanks PT

Oh, sorry -- I misunderstood. PICKMUP is a board vendor and has said he'll sell these alongside his USA-made versions. I hope that he will also be able to give the numbers I asked him for so we can all make an informed purchasing decision.

On that note, I had a lengthy email correspondence this morning with Alex Tainsh, PUI's Executive Vice President, trying to get some numbers from him so we could compare with the USA version (not that we have those numbers, either). He flatly refused to give any info on density or compression rate, claiming it was a trade secret, which really irritates me since any competitor could order a set of their cushions and do some quick, simple testing to determine both of these numbers. Whether he is actually hiding something or not, it makes me feel like he's hiding something. However, here are a couple relevant things he did say:

The weight of the seat foam is 10lbs per bucket seat and is held to our high quality standards. We sell to the best retailers in our industry I am sure that if you are in any way unhappy with the compression rate most dealers would allow you to return it.

I can assure you our PUI brand foam is some of the best on the market. However I am hesitant to send out specifications. (some of this info is proprietary)
I will compare any specs that you have with ours. I think you will find ours to meet or exceed all of our competitors.

My response to the latter was as follows:

I understand your hesitation; you'll have to understand my hesitation to buy something sight unseen from a company that won't tell me what I'm getting. Compression and density are the most standard specs for upholstery foam and something any decent upholstery guy would want to know before buying foam to make his own seats, so it's hardly proprietary information. I wasn't planning to publish a thesis on this; I just need some basic information before placing an order. If you're not even willing to tell me what kind of foam I can expect, it tells me that you're not the kind of company I want to work with. And that is something I'd share with fellow enthusiasts. There are already questions about the quality of import foam; you're not helping the cause by withholding the info. And honestly, this is something your competitors could easily determine by simply ordering a set of your foams, so it's not like KFC's secret spices.

Guess I'll let someone else be the guinea pig. Sure would be nice to see a side-by-side, by-the-numbers comparison between PUI and the USA foams.

[drunkbus]

...

Originally Posted by PT'S 70 CST

brossow I know there are many PUI vendors out there. What I was saying is if these buns are good quality buns and they measure up to the high $ ones then we need to get a board vendor to carry them. I would rather spend my $ here then on ebay.

Thanks PT

Originally Posted by PICKMUP

Well look at that..."China Specials"!
They are about $100 per seat cheaper than those made here in the USA.
I didn't see China or Import mentioned in their ad. Quality is always the question with imports, but I have checked and I can sell these imports too, if you want them.

I can even offer a little better price on those imports and you don't have to buy both. I will sell them one seat at a time with a discount if you buy both seats.
One seat (2 pcs): $150 + shipping.
Both seats (4 pcs): $275 + shipping.

[d.uccello]

This has turned out to be a cool thread.

If these "Import" buns are PUI they are likely pretty good. I haven't used PUI foam for these model seats before but have used many for Novas, Camaros, Olds, Pontiac and Corvettes. With the exception of the Corvette foams all have been made from a good foam and had pretty good fitment. I had a few that seemed slightly over sized and it does seem there is some batch variation, but nothing major.

If anyone does get specs for foam and wants to compare here is a quick guide on what the numbers mean.

Compression (or ILD) I think best translates as the "comfort" of the seat. This is measured by putting a specific weight on a certain size of the foam and measuring the amount of indentation. In a car seat you actually will want a firmer seat (higher number) to keep you in place and act kind of like a damper for your backside. I know of course that no one want to sit on a brick either but remember soft cushy seats may feel good on the short trips (or your sofa) but any descent length ride and you will want support. If that is an issue, IMO it is always easier to add a soft cushion on top than to find a way to firm up soft or dead foam. IMO anything less than 40 is too soft for vehicles and sometimes recommend using a 70 or even 80 to my customers.

Density often translates as "lifespan" (although that is a bit too simple a definition and not the only factor). Density is basically a measurement of how much of the foam is actually foam as opposed to air pockets. Obviously you need air in the foam to have something to "squash" when you sit down. The problem is that over time the air pockets rebound less and less (think blowing up a balloon 30 times and looking at how much more wrinkly it gets each time, only in reverse). A higher density foam will feel like it gives you more support and will feel better longer. For auto seats I like to use a minimum of a 1.7 and will many times use up to a 1.9 to 2.2 (and, as a for instance, I usually will use a 2.2 on cycle seats).

The problem is, of course, price. The more of this stuff that is actually foam and the less air it is, the more it costs. For instance a basic 1"x24"x84" sheet of the same type of foam can easily double in price by going from a 40/1.2 to a 80/2.2. Because of this you will notice that things like furniture foam are getting softer and thinner by the year and wearing out quicker to save money. In fact most foam suppliers won't even stock foam in densities like 2.2 any more (except rebond which is another topic altogether). In fact I have to special order 2.2 through a another company and even then have to buy about 2 years worth just to meet their minimum production order.

The other factors are of course the shape and fitment of these buns, which we can only find out about by actually trying the foam or hearing the stories hear of those who have. So thank you to those who are telling about their experiences here.


Also, out of curiosity, now that the OP has his seat foams ordered and if this thread continues to make a sharp, non-"for sale" turn, will it or a new thread be better suited in a discussion forum?

[brossow]

Originally Posted by d.uccello

Also, out of curiosity, now that the OP has his seat foams ordered and if this thread continues to make a sharp, non-"for sale" turn, will it or a new thread would be better suited in a discussion forum?

I'd love to see the whole thing moved to an Interior forum.

[d.uccello]

If anyone is interested, I threw together a quick, non-scientific foam comparison. The first foam (dark gray) is a good quality 80/2.2 foam. The second foam (off-white) I have no specs for but is an economy furniture quality foam. Both are one inch thick and I chose them as a drastic comparison, obviously there are a lot of foams in between these two.



As you can see, if a gallon of milk can make that much of a difference imagine an 180 pound guy riding for 200 miles.

Okay, now back to work, as fun as this was my coffee break is long over :P

[Sammy]

I own two sets of Buddy's. One set has PUI Foam the other is not. I have rode in the PUI set for 4 hrs. And they were very comfortable. The other set I believe to be original factory foam. (as both seat bottoms were marked with a molded date of 10/68?) They are not nearly as comfortable and no evidence of being rotted or crumbling. And I have only sat in them for a max of 45 min at a time. If I didn't have the other set to compare them it would be much more difficult to tell the difference.

[67cheby]

got them in today look great , feel great setting on them will take some pics this weekend on the frames

[flashed]

I will be watching this one .

[67cheby]

got my seat frames prepped and new foam in, throwing in a before pic

[msgross]

PICKMUP, are you carrying this version now? Great price you posted if so. Did you get any in stock yet, what's your comparison?


67cheby, any details on that cup holder mod (or whatever it is) in the center part?

[PICKMUP]

Yes, I am carrying them now. I have both on hand, but will have the PUI drop shipped to save you the extra shipping.
I don't have a scientific comparison between the two...only appearance & feel!
I think you get what you pay for or save, which ever direction you are going.
The American cushions have a smoother, more uniform appearance to the foam. The China ones have more air pocket-like imperfections seen on the outside. May not mean a thing, just don't look as good.
The feel is also different, as the American ones feel and compress "smoother", if that is possible. The China ones feel like they are "thicker" in consistency, if that is even possible.
So that is the "Seat of the Pants" comparison (pun intended) for what it is worth initially. Time may tell us more as feedback comes in from users.
For now, they are what they are: American looks and feels better, China is cheaper. Pay your money and take your choice.
If you are building a truck to sell or show, China is OK.
If you are going to ride and drive a lot in your truck, you may want to step up to the American. Some people just prefer American made products.
In either case, I think I can save money over most competitors. Shop around and decide.
Thanks, Frank

Originally Posted by msgross

PICKMUP, are you carrying this version now? Great price you posted if so. Did you get any in stock yet, what's your comparison?


67cheby, any details on that cup holder mod (or whatever it is) in the center part?

[brossow]

Originally Posted by PICKMUP

Yes, I am carrying them now. I have both on hand, but will have the PUI drop shipped to save you the extra shipping.
I don't have a scientific comparison between the two...only appearance & feel!

Should be easy enough to compare the two if you have both on hand.

DENSITY = mass / volume -- weigh each cushion, then divide by the volume of water it displaces in a tub. If you've got money to spare, cut an identically sized block from each cushion -- the one that weighs more is denser. If you can assume that both are exactly the same volume (i.e. exactly the same size in all dimensions) then simply weigh the two for a rough idea of which has denser foam.

COMPRESSION (Identation Force Deflection) = amount of weight needed to compress the foam 25%. A little harder to do, unless you've cut a block of foam from each for the density measurement. Simply pile weight on each until it compresses by 25%. Whichever requires more weight has a better IDF (to a certain point, anyway -- granite doesn't compress much but wouldn't make a good seat). Info here: http://www.pfa.org/jifsg/jifsgs4.html

I'd really love to see some non-anecdotal comparisons.

[flashed]

Has anyone used the cheaper foam seat buns for their buddy buckets yet and if so how do you like them ? Im about ready to order my seat covers and buns and could sure use some feedback.
Thanks John

[into69z]

Originally Posted by flashed

Has anyone used the cheaper foam seat buns for their buddy buckets yet and if so how do you like them ? Im about ready to order my seat covers and buns and could sure use some feedback.
Thanks John

I took my seats to the shop when I lived in California and had him use the old covers as patterns to make new covers for my seats. He also replaced the foam-as I remember, he ordered the basic size and density and trimmed them to fit-He says they do it all the time. I was getting too hung up on getting the correct foams and covers but I am completely satisfied with the job they did. the cost was $500.00 and he also painted the frames and installed my new adjustment arm-you can also check with Leddzepp as he had his seats done by the same shop.

[leddzepp]

After seeing/sitting in Into69z redone seats, I took mine to the same local shop. I would go this route again in a heartbeat. I took them a picture of what I wanted, no guesswork. $500 for a complete restoration, including custom made covers and new foam. That is value.

[brossow]

That's some beautiful work you guys had done. Getting all that for not much more than the cost of the buns alone is killer! Wish I wasn't 1500 miles from SoCal.

[flashed]

Im going to check with a couple of upholstery shops and see what I can come up with .My seats are actually not bad to start with but could use some more padding.

[rob32472]

I used the PUI seat foams on my build project cod fish and I can not imagine the american made ones being any better....

[flashed]

My Buddy Buckets are at the upholstery shop now and the shop says that my existing seat buns dont need to be replaced just beefed up a little with some more padding .Im getting them done in black tweed and vinyl for $325 and I furnished the material which was another $100 . Not a bad deal considering my Buddys were given to me by a friend.

[Lee H]

Originally Posted by leddzepp

After seeing/sitting in Into69z redone seats, I took mine to the same local shop. I would go this route again in a heartbeat. I took them a picture of what I wanted, no guesswork. $500 for a complete restoration, including custom made covers and new foam. That is value.

Can you please provide the name of the shop? Thanks
Posted via Mobile Device

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by Lee H

Can you please provide the name of the shop? Thanks
Posted via Mobile Device

Ramirez Upholstery in downtown Rialto.

[Lee H]

Originally Posted by leddzepp

Ramirez Upholstery in downtown Rialto.

Thanks, I'll be using them for the Buckets in my 72.