Gas $3.12/gal - What have you done to improve MPG?

[Kurt L]

well all i know is that i won't buy from them[exxon] as long as they are reaping such high margins.don't think that controlling the market is rite.think that everyone should lower their gas prices so we the people wouldn't have to decide what bills to pay.whether to eat or go to work.

[roughedup72]

my trans am ws6 gets about 16mpg,and its my daily driver,considering starting to ride my bicycle to and from work.
Funny how gas prices soared last year because of Katrina, This year they're already soaring and no hurricanes yet. I guess its because they can and will continue to raise the prices because people need to drive there vehicles to get to and from work. So when does it become to much? when we can no longer afford to go to work,then we loose our vehicles and houses because we lost our jobs because we couldnt by gas to get there. I think we should all sue the gas companies and take a large bite out of there billion+ profit. i mean they've already made it where families cant and wont take vacations, hell we cant even enjoy a weekend on the lake or just a weekend trip.Again I ask WHEN IS IT GOIING TO STOP?

[shelby987]

I have to be honest, I have driven my 8 mile commute with 4 different vehicles, and they all averaged between 11-18mpg......not a HUGE difference. The only reason the truck is parked right now is because of its bad front axle.....once thats fixed, I am back to my 11mpg with my 4.56 gears and my 250 I6......I am working on changing to 4.10's but thats more of a highway issue, I just don't like spinning my engine that fast on the highway.
Gas prices suck, I am subscribing to the "don't buy from exon-mobil" approach, as they are the largest sellers of gasoline.....although, I am looking for a economic vehicle for the mrs' as she drives 72 miles ONE WAY during her commute....but it WILL be an american vehicle.....can't justify supporting foreign economies when our's is in such a losing state to foreign competition.....I can't afford new, but maybe I can help drive up the value of used american cars.....its gotta be good for the new values right?

[ClemsonChevy]

While on vacation this next week, I am going to replace the 5 spd tranny in my 92 Eagle Talon 2.0L with a junkyard one Ive had for a while. The car gets 300+ miles per fill up, which used to be around $17 worth, but now's probably $25ish.
My 95 2500 with a 305 takes about $60+ to fill up, so its going to get parked, or sold.....cheap. Probably enough to pay it off and have a good down payment on
a motorcycle. Heck, maybe even one of those lil 250 cc road bikes.
It's still better than a Moped.

[Kurt L]

roughedup72,it's all going stop when the people[us americans] stand up and say this is enough.in other words we take back our country and put people in the white house like you and me and other good people,that love this country and their freedoms and libertys.not trying to make a polictical thread here but thats what it's going to take.we the people rise up and do something bout the high gas prices.and everything else that is wrong in this country.

[watermark]

I had a 99 dodge stratus, it got great gas milage. It was rear ended at 35 mph. That was the end of that car and almost me. I now drive an 88 caddy (16mpg) or my 72 chevy c20. If I got 16 out of my truck it would be my daly driver.

[71-longbed]

Good Point Kurt !!!... instead of complaining ... we need to get organized and do something

[409biscayne]

Originally Posted by Kurt L

roughedup72,it's all going stop when the people[us americans] stand up and say this is enough.in other words we take back our country and put people in the white house like you and me and other good people,that love this country and their freedoms and libertys.not trying to make a polictical thread here but thats what it's going to take.we the people rise up and do something bout the high gas prices.and everything else that is wrong in this country.

Best reply yet . Hope it's not too late .

[JRB]

Originally Posted by Kurt L

roughedup72,it's all going stop when the people[us americans] stand up and say this is enough.in other words we take back our country and put people in the white house like you and me and other good people,that love this country and their freedoms and libertys.not trying to make a polictical thread here but thats what it's going to take.we the people rise up and do something bout the high gas prices.and everything else that is wrong in this country.

Kurt L,
I agree with everything you are saying. The problem is the Doing part. It's easy to say what you think but it's the getting it done part that illudes us as Americans. When the poloticians start getting patitions signed by millions of pissed off Americans (Voters). Then if they want to keep there jobs and not get voted out (Start Representing US) instead of big bisuness (Money) they will do there jobs. We as Americans need to Vote (Our God Given Right) and make our points be heard. The other part of this is to find an alternative to Petroleum as our energy source and tell the Middle East to take a flying leap.
JRB

[midwestburner]

My daily driver is a 2000 Honda Accord 4cyl. I average 25mpg in city and 35ish hwy. I will be moving in closer to work (St. Louis) in the summer as well. Maybe then driving my '72 BB (454) 4x4 wouldn't be so bad if I only lived 3 miles from work.

Don't blame the big oil companies for the sky high prices (at least not totally). Congress is to blame for the majority of it. F*cked by our government...again...big surprise. Republican...Democrat...there is no difference anymore. All they want is our money and will screw the average American to get it. Educate yourself and do something to make a difference.

[Lobo'74]

I have a close friend who has his own oil exploration business. His comment to me last year was that folks in the industry make a good profit at 50$/barrel oil and can't see why the prices go up to 60$+/barrel.

The answer is two fold - first, the commodity brokers on wall street run the price per barrel up by their buying practices. Like many stock market transactions it does not have to have any basis in reality, its just what they can get the market up to so they raise what they make as profit for their clients.

Second - Supply and demand and China. Within the last month it was reported that now China is the largest market for goods in the world - it passed the USA. The chinese are starting to use more and more oil based products - gas, oil, plastics and other petro chemicals, etc. They will drive the price up by paying more than we do for oil - they want it, they will be growing into a larger market than the USA, there is a finite supply. China is a HUGE problem in our future on many levels including economic and militarily.

[Southpa]

The king of Saudi Arabia, world's biggest oil reserves and exporter, just lowered gas prices by 25% in his country. He cares about his people and believes gas prices should be adjusted to compensate for the cost of living.

What have I done to save gas? I pulled 2 plug wires and turned my 350 into a 6 cly. Runs a bit shaky but still gets me around.





































BWAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[BrianJordan]

Originally Posted by 71-longbed

Good Point Kurt !!!... instead of complaining ... we need to get organized and do something

kick um all to the curb, and start from scrach.

[cell]

Does any of you gooroos out there know how a fuel injection system works. Does a motor put more fuel in the cylinder at 5,280 feet than at sea level? If yes then why?

Yeah, actually I am going to be implementing my own fuel injection system. It is going to be based on the megasquirt open source system (see megasquirt.info and msefi.com).

This guy has looked into the issue of altitude and mixture adjustment:

http://www.thegebharts.com/megabaro.html

Barometric pressure is a factor because as the engine goes up in altitude it experiences less backpressure on the exhaust, increasing its volumetric efficiency. Contrary to what would seem obvious, you must richen the mixture as you go up in altitude to compensate for this. The effect of reduced air/oxygen to burn at altitude is already taken into account by lower MAP sensor readings.

He goes on to discuss how after fiddling with a corvette ECU, he discovered that the fuel mixture richening was directly proportional to altitude. That guy has a rather extensive website about his experience with DIY EFI. Neat stuff.

Let me know if I can help you out with any EFI stuff.

By the way, hydrogen fumigation should also work with a carburetor. If you look at the bottom of this page http://www.mrsharkey.com/lpg.htm you will see that the autoignition (knock) temperature of hydrogen is about 2.5 times that of gasoline, and the flamability range (the range of fuel to air ratios which will ignite) is much, much wider, so it should be a pretty easy fuel to work with (shouldn't contribute to knock, and almost any amount of it should burn).

Does anyone know about an extra hydrogen atom in a burn situation? Its the difference between the blue(most effecient) and the orange(less efficient) part of the flame. One letting off carbon monoxide (Orange) and the other carbon dioxide (Blue Flame).

The extra hydrogen should just combine with oxygen and burn. The flame color thing you mention is a matter of fuel to air ratio. Back in chemistry class, when you turned the valve on your bunsen burner and the flame went from a sharp, hot blue flame to a limp yellow flame, that's because the fuel to air ratio was thrown off. If you are using a fuel injection system, you will probably be monitoring the left over oxygen in the tail pipe, so that you can maintain the right fuel to air ratio (ie, the blue flame).

Or if you are really ambitious, by putting a DC offset through your spark plugs and wiring up some monitoring circuitry, you can implement your own ion sensing. Ions are created by combustion, and the ion density will be proportional to cylinder pressure. Once you have a real-time measurement of cylinder pressure, you can do all sorts of nifty things, like per-cylinder knock detection, and constantly fine tuning your engine to always have the ideal spark advance. See http://www.doublepup.com/BaseQuicki/wiki.cgi?IonSensing for more info.

Do you get worse gas milage if your alternator is fully loaded or not? Is the spinning mass in your alternator the same or more if it is loaded or not?

Ignoring friction, the load which your alternator puts on your accessory belt should be proportional to the amount of amps which your car's electrical system is drawing. If you push in your cigarette lighter and double the electrical load on your alternator, it should be roughly twice as hard for the engine to turn the alternator. Conversely, if you were to electrically disconnect your alternator, it should be (relatively) much easier to spin (you would only be overcoming the bearing friction and the "cogging" affect of the magnets being attracted to the iron cores in the alternator). Think of it in terms of how many electrons your alternator has to "push" around.

[JRB]

Cell,
You have realy thought this stuff out and my hats off to you. I am concidering putting a TPI on my 67 I just purchased. It's sort of a Frankenstien project. So I will probably get back to you on the fuel injection system later. Thanks for the links and the info you gave me on the above.
JRB

[jracca]

Originally Posted by Southpa

The king of Saudi Arabia, world's biggest oil reserves and exporter, just lowered gas prices by 25% in his country. He cares about his people and believes gas prices should be adjusted to compensate for the cost of living.

What have I done to save gas? I pulled 2 plug wires and turned my 350 into a 6 cly. Runs a bit shaky but still gets me around.


AAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Everyone else, please don't do this in an attempt to save fuel.

First of all the fuel will still fill the cylinder through the intake valve and flow out through the exhaust valve, just not burned, so it will not produce any power, just use fuel. Second, the engine will still be compressing the air fuel mixture, so it will still be creating the drag. So you will have more pollution, less power, and no fuel savings, probably worse economy.

If you are intent on doing this (please don't), you should pull the pushrods and rocker arms for the intake valve for that cylinder to prevent any fuel from being pulled into the cylinder and for the exhaust valve which will remove some valve train drag.

That rumbling is the engine which is not properly balanced for 6 cylinder use, it won't be good for engine life, not to mention engine mounts or anything else on the truck which will be subjected to the vibration.

Just don't do it. The cylinder deactivation system on modern engines do more that just kill the spark.

[lukecp]

I tried the acetone thing with a few tanks of gas on my car, ZERO difference in gas mileage.

[petsudeh]

Gas prices are a crime I say. I drive 4 x 130 miles per week = 520 miles per week. (Back and forth to school)

At $3.00 per gallon....thats......I dont want to do that math..

I have a Hyundai for that commute, I couldnt stand to hurt my ole '71 that way!

[Southpa]

@jracca, no seriously, you didn't think I was joking around? Gotcha!

[midwestburner]

Originally Posted by shelby987

I have to be honest, I have driven my 8 mile commute with 4 different vehicles, and they all averaged between 11-18mpg......not a HUGE difference. The only reason the truck is parked right now is because of its bad front axle.....once thats fixed, I am back to my 11mpg with my 4.56 gears and my 250 I6......I am working on changing to 4.10's but thats more of a highway issue, I just don't like spinning my engine that fast on the highway.
Gas prices suck, I am subscribing to the "don't buy from exon-mobil" approach, as they are the largest sellers of gasoline.....although, I am looking for a economic vehicle for the mrs' as she drives 72 miles ONE WAY during her commute....but it WILL be an american vehicle.....can't justify supporting foreign economies when our's is in such a losing state to foreign competition.....I can't afford new, but maybe I can help drive up the value of used american cars.....its gotta be good for the new values right?

Fact Sheet:

August 29, 2005 - Toyota V6 Engine Production begins in Alabama

April 27, 2005 - Toyota Breaks Ground for Alabama Engine Plant Expansion

September 24, 2004 - Governor Riley Announces Major Toyota Expansion and New Jobs in Huntsville

July 24, 2003 - Toyota's Alabama Engine Plant Adds Two To Management Team

July 14, 2003 - Toyota Expands Alabama Plant

May 12, 2003 - Toyota's Alabama, West Virginia Plants Reach Zero Landfill Status

May 12, 2003 - Toyota V8 Engine Production Begins In Alabama


DETROIT (AP) -- General Motors is closing plants in the United States but says it will open a new one in Mexico.

General Motors is to import a V6 engine from China to install in a planned Chevrolet sport-utility vehicle to be built in Canada

GM crate motors aren't American made...


Which do you think helps American workers more? And what does it say about GM outsourcing production to China...Canada...Brazil...Mexico??? It doesn't mean they don't think highly of our workers, just that they are trying to cut costs as much as possible. It's a business. Try to separate pride from $$. When you throw in "Pride" people tend to lose sight that everyone is in it to make money. Bottom line, $$$$ is the reason why the world works the way it does. Toyota wouldn't build plants over here if they didn't think it wouldn't help them in the long run and GM wouldn't close plants here if they were making money. It's ALL about $$$, so be smart with yours.

[Bill72BB]

Drive the wifes car when we don't need a truck .

[jracca]

Originally Posted by Southpa

@jracca, no seriously, you didn't think I was joking around? Gotcha!

You sure did

But at least no newbie will try it now

[glock35ipsc]

Originally Posted by midwestburner

Fact Sheet:

August 29, 2005 - Toyota V6 Engine Production begins in Alabama

April 27, 2005 - Toyota Breaks Ground for Alabama Engine Plant Expansion

September 24, 2004 - Governor Riley Announces Major Toyota Expansion and New Jobs in Huntsville

July 24, 2003 - Toyota's Alabama Engine Plant Adds Two To Management Team

July 14, 2003 - Toyota Expands Alabama Plant

May 12, 2003 - Toyota's Alabama, West Virginia Plants Reach Zero Landfill Status

May 12, 2003 - Toyota V8 Engine Production Begins In Alabama

Yup, Toyota is the largest American auto producer today.

[glock35ipsc]

My 2003 Silverado gets 18-19mpg, so that is just fine. When it is nice out, I rider my Yamaha V-Star. 55 mpg there!

On another note, I am heavily invested in the stocks of oil service companies and oil producers, as well as crude futures and other commodities. I have to chuckle every time I hear someone say something to the fact that “big oil” is responsible for the price of crude. Fact is, we do not pay enough for gasoline. Gas is cheap. Don’t believe me, go to the UK and fill up. We have had it waaaaay too easy here in the states for too long, and we are just now catching up to the rest of the world. Here is a piece I copied from one of the newsletters I receive weekly (and not from an oil company )

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

It's easy to get mad at the big oil companies, but the real story is far more complex. Gasoline costs a lot in the U.S. today, so it just feels like a good idea to blame the big oil companies with accusations of “gouging” and “windfall profits.” But like most high-octane emotional reactions, this one is wrong, as you’d need to breach every tenet of capitalism to lay all the fault at the oil giants’ feet.

The reason that gasoline costs $1 or more per gallon today than a year ago is simple: Hurricane Katrina kicked our supply lines down a crooked staircase, and a painful kink emerged in the commodity’s complex worldwide distribution system. Although it seems unfair at times, it’s a fundamental principle of our great economic system that the most efficient way to allocate a scarce resource is through price. When there isn’t enough of something valuable to go around -- whether it’s caviar, Manhattan property or reliable home-run hitters -- in a market society we let the item go to the highest bidder. This is eBay 101.

In the case of gasoline, many consumers do not seem to yet grasp the difference between crude oil, the price of which is fluxuating of late, and the stuff that they pump into their car, which is getting more expensive. One is the raw material, while the other is a finished good. It’s the difference between the price of raw cotton and an Armani T-shirt. You wouldn’t expect a sharp cut in prices at Bloomingdale's just because cotton futures prices fell, and neither should you expect a 1:1 change in the relationship between oil prices and gas prices.

Moreover, many don’t seem to grasp the difference between the large, vertically integrated companies (such as Royal Dutch Petroleum, which is the parent group of Shell) that are net buyers of oil in a hypercompetitive arena at prices that fluctuate on a world scale and the corner gasoline station that is a net seller of gasoline at prices set at whatever the market will bear on a local scale.

The confusion largely comes from the fact that neighborhood filling stations typically obtain marketing support from oil giants in exchange for a promise to buy a certain percentage of their products. The station owner then plasters the giant’s name all over his business as an advertising ploy. While it might look as if the corner station that’s boosted its unleaded price to $3.50 is owned by Royal Dutch because all the garish yellow signage says “Shell,” in fact the business is more likely owned by an independent entrepreneur who lives down the street.

The oil companies themselves control very few gas stations anymore. The “gougers,” if there are any, are thus not the oil companies but local guys who are exploiting a short-term supply disruption to make some extra profits in a generally low-margin business. Stations generally make more money on their convenience store beer and Twinkies than on unleaded.

Right now there is plenty of crude oil in the world’s pipeline, but a scarcity of gasoline. Katrina knocked a considerable amount of crude-oil production out of commission in the Gulf of Mexico, to be sure. But as a gesture of goodwill, and to make a buck, our allies in the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, agreed to produce more than their usual allotments to keep world reserves stable. At the same time, the U.S. government agreed to release tens of millions of barrels of crude oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, an energy piggy bank started 30 years ago after the Yom Kippur War between Israel and its Arab neighbors disrupted supply.

You can have all the oil in the world and still run short of gasoline, however, if major refineries are out of action. Refineries are large, smelly, unattractive plants that “crack” crude oil’s hydrocarbons into the stuff that makes modern life go, such as heating oil, kerosene, jet fuel, the feedstock for plastics, diesel and automotive gasoline. Few U.S. states have ever wanted these noxious beasts on their coastlines, so the ones built in loosely regulated Louisiana half a century ago make something like half of all the refined crude oil products in the country. When Katrina blasted through, her high winds and storm surge knocked these plants for a loop, and the partial shutdown caused 10% of the nation’s entire supply of gasoline to vanish in a weekend.

Many medium-sized refiners, such as Tesoro, do own a lot of their own gas stations. They make much of their profit on what the industry calls the “crack spread.” That’s the difference in the price between what the refiner pays for crude oil and the price it receives for the products it cracks those hydrocarbon molecules into. Because environmentalists have made it so difficult for refiners to grow, the industry consolidated mightily to gain economies of scale. In a tight supply environment, the nation’s few remaining refiners naturally hoard refined product for their own stations first -- and then wholesale the rest to the highest bidder both to distributors and individual station owners.

Because there are a lot of sophisticated buyers at wholesale, prices settle at an equilibrium that reflects the cost of production plus a small premium demanded by a dislocated supply. Once the winning bidder ships the gasoline home to his station in East Crawdad, Ala., however, he may have no competitors for his product and can charge a price that reflects local demand plus a premium that reflects area residents’ unwillingness to travel farther for a lower price. So even though the Alabama station might have received free signage from Shell, the oil giant has virtually no say, and gains nothing, from potentially outrageous local price hikes.

Rather than just getting mad at the local station owner, motorists can either blow his nefarious scheme by finding local gasoline in more competitive markets -- or join him, to some extent, by becoming an energy industry stakeholder.

Shell and ExxonMobile does not set the price they receive for their production, the world markets (read: stock markets) set the price. If they produce no more or no less, the will obviously profit more when crude oil prices spike.

[JRB]

I worked on gas pumps when I first got out of the Navy and believe it or not when you pump gas on the slow setting you actually get more gas. I cant tell you how many times I have had pissed off gas station owners calling me because there pumps were pumping slow. Most of the time they might get some gas with a little more water in it than usual and the filters would clog making the pumps pump slower. I would calibrate the pumps with a calibrated 5 gallon gas container and it would always over flow when pumping 5 gallons according to what the pump said and pumping slow. When pumping fast it was right on the mark. I probably calibrated every kind of pump know to man and they all work the same. So if your not in a hurry pump slow.
JRB