Anyone Use E85 Ethanol As Fuel In Your Truck?

[RipMeyer]

Was wondering if we can use this fuel in our trucks. Anyone know much about it?

[BobbyK]

We(Canadians) use a ethalol/gas blend.It's fuel derived from corn.Not all gas stations have the blended gas though.

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"71"blazer,rust free(bought in Arizona),350SBC
(375HP),700R4,factory G.M. TPI.Living in Santa Barbara,California.Ongoing project.

[mrein3]

Ethanol can be VERY bad for engines if you don't use it right away. NEVER put it in lawn mowers, snowblowers, etc. unless you use them alot.

If your truck sits for long periods of time I'd stay away from it. I don't use E85 but I think Minnesota has us using 10% ethanol (to keep the farmers happy). I put it in my commuter car and haven't had a problem in 172,900 miles.

I've received 4 FREE lawn mowers from people who couldn't get them to run in the spring. Every one had ethanol in the carburetor bowl all winter.

I think the magic number is two weeks. If the gas is going to sit for two weeks or more buy non-ethanol.

[704x4]

that's a hell of a false statement i have used 89.5 octane 10% ethanol in every vehicle that i have owned in the last 10 years

includeing mopeds, motorcycles, four wheelers, cars, trucks, lawn mowers, weed eaters, chainsaws, etc.

i have never had any sort of problems even if i let the fuel sit for 6 months, there is no magic number.

ethenol burns cleaner, supports us citizens instead of towel heads, and isn't neccessarily cheaper at the pump but you are paying more in fuel tax instead of for the gas.

you can't tell by looking in a carb bowl if there is ethenol in it. it is the same color and smells the same.

there are other types of fuel blends that gm warns not to use in their vehicles, but corn ethenol is not one of them!

[nroden]

I think that all gas here in Missouri has been 10% ethanol for a long time now! It doesnt seem to hurt much.

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Nick Rodenberg
Wellington, MO
http://nickrod.port5.com
You can click on "My 72 Chevy Truck"
I have a 72 Cheyenne 10 with a V8 350 and a TH-350 auto-tranny.
Ochre/White/Ochre
Runs well... working on body.
Plan to get painted weekend before memorial day weekend.
Planned to be done March 7 when I turned 16. Didn't happen. Chose to do better job and be behind schedule instead of 1/2 doing it and it looking like junk.

[mrein3]

How come EVERY marine and small engine mechanic I know, none of whom sell gas, tells you to burn only non-ethanol in your small stuff?

How come the local radio car talk show host tells you to go out of your way to buy non-ethanol for your toys?

How come the MSRA (MN Street Rod Assn.) tells you to stay away from it...
And lists all the places you can get non-ethanol in the state on their website?

I burned two tanks of ethanol laiden gas in my 1996 Johnson FastStrike and both times I had to rebuild a carb.

False my a$$! Keep using it in your small stuff. I like free lawn mowers (four and counting all because of ethanol)

[RipMeyer]

E85 is supposed to be 85% Ethanol 10% Gas.

Are you guys using E85?

[chevy72402]

Hmmm.... I have my 72 that sits for about 10 months out of 12 months and never have had a problem with the gas. Our farm has 2 4-wheelers and 2 motorcycles that can sit for months at a time and never have had problems with the gas...... we have a boat that has a johnson motor and have had no problems with it. our pickups sit in the winter months when we aren't taking them to the fields and we have no problems with them... Keeping the farmers happy huh??? Try to go to the store and buy a reasonably priced steak or bread if it wasn't for farmers and ranchers... Or maybe it is like Clinton said " I buy my milk from the store" not realizing that it is actually the farmers and ranchers that bring the produce in.... Maybe I take that comment too personally but I know how hard we work on our farm/ranch to be patronized by someone saying "to keep the farmers happy" If it doesn't say 10% ethanol I don't buy it. I know where it comes from and who it supports! AMERICANS

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72 chevy super, long box, 402 big block (2,000 miles on rebuild 2wd orange and white.
84 k10 4x4 crate 350 with 330 hp

[chevy72402]

oh yeah add 2 John Deere lawnmowers and 1 snapper mower to that list.

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72 chevy super, long box, 402 big block (2,000 miles on rebuild 2wd orange and white.
84 k10 4x4 crate 350 with 330 hp

[O'l Buck]

I burn 89 octant 10% ethanol in every vehicle I own, I've heard all the bs about it being bad for older carbs, drying gaskets, ruining the plasic floats, never had a problem. the only reason I don't use it in my mowers is because the place I usually go to get my gas can filled doesn't carry ethanol blend. I like the idea of supporting the farms and US. It makes me happy to know that corn is good for something besides taco shells and cattle feed.

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Ol' Buck: '72 Chevy 1/2T 4x4 shortbox stepside 350/350auto on '84
ralleys and 31/10.5s

Angel girl: 67 Cutlass convertible
330, 3spd stick

Greener: 90 GMC Jimmy
350/auto
Chad Stephens
Orleans,NE

no name yet: 72 442 under serious construction

[68 Stepside]

I currently work in a gas station, and I've had a handfull of people come in and tear me a new a$$hole b/c we have 10% ethanol in our gas...why? It's people in new cars....apparently they've been told not to run ethanol?

68

[68 Suburban]

Im not sure what gas mixture it was, but the Chevy dealer had be sign an agreement that I would not run a certain type of fuel in my new 2000 Malibu, or it would void the warranty on the fuel system. It was either Methynal or Ethynal.

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[This message has been edited by 68 Suburban (edited April 17, 2002).]

[RipMeyer]

Well after diggin around a bit this is what I found.


Gasoline-ethanol blends containing up to 10% volume ethanol may be used in any vehicle. The addition of ethanol boosts octane and, because it is an oxygenate, ethanol contributes to a more complete fuel combustion resulting in reduced emissions of carbon monoxide and other ozone-forming emissions. All major auto manufacturers approve the use of up to 10% volume ethanol.

In fact, some manufacturers, such as General Motors, Chrysler, Ford, Nissan, Range Rover, and Suzuki recommend the use of oxygenated fuels and/or reformulated gasoline for their clean burning characteristics. Blends above 10% volume are not approved by the auto manufacturers or the EPA for use in standard gasoline engine vehicles.

The Energy Policy Act of 1992 also recognizes E85 (a blend of 85% ethanol and 15% unleaded gasoline) as an alternative fuel. In order to operate on E85, vehicles need to be compatible with alcohol use. The conversion cost to make FFVs compatible with E85 typically includes upgrades to the fuel system components, the addition of a fuel sensor, and reprogramming the EPOM (computer chip) in the ECM/PCM (electronic control module/power train control module).

[mrein3]

I don't use E85. Everything in Minnesota that DOES NOT say non-oxygenated has ethanol as a additive.

I put it in my daily driver ALL THE TIME. I know for a FACT that it is hard on my outboard.

The stuff seperates in as little as two weeks but for an additive it is WAY better for the envrionment than MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether). MTBE pollutes the groundwater real bad and is getting banned everywhere it isn't already banned.

Yes our farmers produce corn which makes ethanol. I'd like to see a raise of hands of all the farmers out there who have had their price of corn raise since the federal government started mandating clean air fuel additives.

Yup. No hands. The only people making money off of ethanol production is the corporations that we subsidized to build the ethanol plants. It is great for the community that gets the plant but it sucks for everybody downwind from the plant. A couple of weeks ago I was driving through Morris, MN. My wife is from out that way and asked what the new factory on the horizon was. As soon as we got downwind it was clear...
Ethanol.

The last time I looked into it if we bought corn gas for what it cost to produce it it would be $1.7x/gallon verses $0.95/gallon for real gas. Holy welfare batman.

[chevy72402]

I am not sure what you mean by "holy welfare batman" but have you seen gas prices lately?? I am not sure what they are in MN but I believe they are somewhere around $1.45 here.... So much for your welfare.. Maybe you like supporting Osama and the like...I for one don't and I think that we should begin drilling in the great lakes and more in AL and control our own gas prices. If that means ethanol then so be it. Our farm has delivered to ethanol plants some of our corn that was not mill grade and yeah it helped us from not having to throw it away. I see nothing wrong with that.

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72 chevy super, long box, 402 big block (2,000 miles on rebuild 2wd orange and white.
84 k10 4x4 crate 350 with 330 hp

[chevy72402]

Raises hand

We did get better then nothing for spoiled corn.

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72 chevy super, long box, 402 big block (2,000 miles on rebuild 2wd orange and white.
84 k10 4x4 crate 350 with 330 hp

[texnician01]

I've got to say that I burn ethanol in EVERYTHING and have had no real trouble. the worst thing is that the weedeater gets gummed up over the winter but that happens with regular gas too. I think that it burns cleaner and helps out our economy. Everything has it's faults when it first starts and ethanol is the same way. You cant tell me that the car company's can't make parts that are compatable with ethanol. it's just the fact that they don't want to!! you really think that the car companys and the oil companys don't work together?!! We've got a 95 caravan, a 2001 dakota, an 88 s-10, a 92 grand am, a 69 truck and a 47 willys jeep along with the lawnmowers and such. never had a problem here in iowa. in fact ethanol is the cheapest stuff at the pumps!!!

I don't know about everyone else but I fully support it!!


to answer your question rip I don't think that I would go 85% cause it does burn a little hotter and you may run the chance of melting a piston or something. you may be able to run a blend of half 85% and half 10% but I wouldn't run strait 85%, not that I wouldn't love to!!
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1969 C-10 292 I-6 4 spd in the middle of a restoration. going to get a 327 and 3.07 gears but keeping all of the original parts so I can put it back to original later on down the road.
55 chevy 4 door 150
47 Willys CJ-2A




[This message has been edited by texnician01 (edited April 17, 2002).]

[Norwegian]

Wow.. you are lucky to have ethanol on pumps.. here in norway we have to buy it at the liquer store for $40 a liter. :-)

[mrein3]

So much for welfare?
If it costs $1.7x to produce and you pay $1.45 at the pump, where does the other $.25 or more come from? $.40 or more of that $1.45 is tax so it is really $.65 or more per gallon of welfare.

Facts suck sometimes.

[chevy72402]

Where are you getting your "facts" from??? Are you a producer? do you work for the gas companies?? Facts??? lets see them.. from a reliable source please. Oh and also show me where it is that you found out that this "welfare" goes to the farmers and not the government. And if ya don't like the smell of the ethanol plants don't go by them! pretty easy but easier to complain about I guess! Lets see the "facts"

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72 chevy super, long box, 402 big block (2,000 miles on rebuild 2wd orange and white.
84 k10 4x4 crate 350 with 330 hp

[mrein3]

I am not a producer or work for a gas company. I know people who live downwind of the Gopher Ethanol plant off of west 7th in St. Paul. They lived there WAY before the government subsidized ethanol production started. What should they do? Sell their home and pay taxes elsewhere (taxes that end up subsidizing the ethanol that stinks out the new homeowner).

I get some facts from: http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicl...l-ethanol.html

The government welfare doesn't even end up in producers pockets. It ends up in ADM's pocket. Producers still get the same crappy price for their corn.

Look. I want ethanol to work. In modern engines, if you use it right away, it burns cleaner. That is good for all of us. But you still can't overcome the FACT that it is close to 50% LESS efficient that pure gas. If ethanol plants are so great how come we have to subsidize them?

A guy I know looked into this when he was in college. If you burn pure ethanol in an engine you get about 1/2 the mileage as the same engine burning pure gas.

Sigh.

[chevy72402]

Taxpayer Benefits


The partial excise tax exemption for ethanol and ETBE blends available to gasoline marketers saves money. A General Accounting Office (GAO) study has shown that reduced farm program costs and increased income tax revenues offset the cost of the incentive.
The economic activity attributable to the ethanol industry will generate $3.5 billion in additional income tax revenue over the next five years -- $1 billion more than the cost of the exemption. The U. S. ethanol industry will create a net gain to the taxpayers of almost $4 billion over the next five years.

Economic Benefits



More than $3 billion has been invested in 60 ethanol production facilities operating in 20 different states across the country.
The ethanol industry is responsible for more than 40,000 direct and indirect jobs, creating more than $1.3 billion in increased household income annually, and more than $12.6 billion over the next five years.
The ethanol industry directly and indirectly adds more than $6 billion to the American economy each year.
The demand for grain created by ethanol production increases net farm income more than $12 billion annually.
As the economic activity created by the ethanol industry ripples throughout the economy, it generated $30 billion in final demand between 1996 and 2000.
Increases in ethanol production offer enormous potential for economic growth in small rural communities. USDA has estimated that a 100 million gallon ethanol plant could create 2,250 local jobs.

Agricultural Benefits


Industrial corn use, which includes ethanol and sweetener production, is now the second largest consumer of corn in America. Each $1 of up-stream and on-farm economic activity generates $3.20 in downstream economic stimulus attributable to ethanol processing, compared to just $0.31 when corn is exported.
Ethanol production consumed 535 million bushels of corn in 1994 (5.3% of the record 10 billion bushel corn crop). About 667 million bushels of corn were used for ethanol in 2001.
The demand for corn created by the ethanol industry increases crop values -- accounting for approximately $0.14 of the value of every bushel of corn sold, or $ 1.4 billion.
If the market for ethanol did not exist, corn stocks would rise and net income to American corn farmers would be reduced by $6 billion over the next five years, or about 11 %.
Many farmers now own and operate ethanol plants, allowing them to add value to their own corn.

Energy / Trade Benefits

Domestic ethanol production reduces demand for imported oil and imported MTBE which drains our economy - oil and MTBE imports now represent almost 80% of the U.S. trade deficit.
Currently, imported oil accounts for about 56% of oil used, and imported MTBE is at a record 31% of domestic production.
Today, ethanol reduces the demand for gasoline and MTBE imports by 98,000 barrels per day. A 98,000 barrel/day replacement of imported MTBE would represent a $1.1 billion reduction to our annual trade deficit.
Ethanol production also generates exports of feed co-products, such as corn gluten, further enhancing our balance of trade.
Ethanol production is extremely energy efficient, with a positive energy balance of 125%, compared to 85% for gasoline. Ethanol production is by far the most efficient method of producing liquid transportation fuels. According to USDA, each Btu used to produce a Btu of gasoline could be used to produce 8 Btus of ethanol.

Environmental Benefits

10-percent ethanol blends reduce carbon monoxide better than any other reformulated gasoline blend -- more than 25%.
Ethanol is low in reactivity and high in oxygen content, making it an effective tool in reducing ozone pollution.
Ethanol is a safe replacement for toxic octane enhancers in gasoline such as benzene, toluene and xylene.
Oil companies are now starting to acknowledge the environmental and energy benefits of ethanol. http://www.ethanol.org/

I wonder how accurate "your Guy's" statement is. I do not belive that for a second with the government mandating better fuel economy in all vehicles and letting the fuel become less effective??? get real



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72 chevy super, long box, 402 big block (2,000 miles on rebuild 2wd orange and white.
84 k10 4x4 crate 350 with 330 hp

[chevy72402]

A bushel of corn, which weighs 56 pounds, will produce 17 pounds of DDG and 2.7 gallons of ethanol.
your websites "facts" are off also



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72 chevy super, long box, 402 big block (2,000 miles on rebuild 2wd orange and white.
84 k10 4x4 crate 350 with 330 hp

[clint]

Don't forget that the oil companies are also subsidized by US taxpayers!!

[mrein3]

I know. Your facts are real and mine are junk. Just like all arguements. Lets use my numbers from my own car.

Back when I bought my commuter car, a 1994 Ford Escort, it got 38mpg. I bought it new and still own it. All of a sudden after October 1st of that year (mandated date that all pumps in MN have 10% ethanol back then) my car's mileage dropped to 34mpg. I got worried and asked my old boss if I need to look at something. (I used to work at a garage). He said wait until next spring - its the ethanol. Sure enough after March 1st it jumped back to 38. Now we get stuck with that crap 365 days/year and I get 34mpg all year. For the math challenged 4/38 is close to 10% (10.53%). 10% worse mileage which makes sence since 10% of my tank is welfare gas.

Now you can believe your numbers but welfare is welfare.

Answer this. If ethanol is so great for the economy why do they subsidize it? Why not let it stand on its own merits? Why not have a pump handle with gas next to one with ethanol AND CHARGE WHAT IT COSTS TO PRODUCE PLUS A PROFIT FOR THE PRODUCER. Are you going to fill up on Ethanol at $1.70 + tax + profit or $0.95 + tax + profit?

ABC national news just did a story on where our oil comes from. OPEC only sells us about 20% of the oil we consume here in the US. (I'm guessing at 20% - they used a pie chart and the OPEC slice was less than one quarter of the pie). Our price goes up because other countries, that are more dependant on mid-east oil, have a decrease in supply which leads to an increase in price. That causes our price to rise because now the other producers are able to charge more for thier oil. That is what happens in a true market. Supply and demand.

I stopped by a farmer friend's place a few weeks ago. We got to talking about prices and subsidies. He said,
"You know what farmers need for lower prices? More lower prices."
I said, "Won't more guys go out of business?"
He said, "Yes. Less supply which will lead to higher prices."

Facts. I hate to confuse people with facts.

Sigh.