$1,000 383 stroker info needed

[JAKES 68GMC]

I was reading in another thread about how Hot Rod mag built a 400hp, 441 ft, lbs of torque 383 Chevy stroker for under a grand. I was wondering if anyone had info on this, as to what issue it was, or if anyone had a copy of the issue it was in. Thanks for help.

[Ricks1971]

Don't think it can be done. With the block work and balancing everything,new pistons,cam and all the other goodies you will need to do it right. I just built a sbc 400 and it cost me about 2,500 for 425 hp

[67_C-30]

I don't know about the article, but I built the 383 in my '69 C-30 car hauler for around $1200. However, I had the block, heads, intake, carb, headers, all bracketry, and 400 straight shift flywheel. I bought a Wheeler Motorsports 383 balanced stroker kit. It was around $600. It comes with a new cast steel crank, GM "X" rods (resized, shot peened, clearanced, balanced and has ARP bolts), and Silvolite Hypereutectic flat-top pistons). I have a set of #882 castings rebuilt with new valvesprings and hardware. The valves were within spec. I bought a rering kit from Northern Auto Parts that had a Fel-Pro gasket set and Moly rings since the kit had no rings or gaskets. I bought a Comp Xtreme Energy 4X4 cam for it. I'm running a Holley 600 on a '65 327 intake that accepts a Holley carb with no adaptor plate. It has 1 5/8 headers with pretty quiet Thrush Turbo Mufflers. My truck weighs 8200# unloaded and without me in it, and I have hauled one car/truck on the back, and another on a trailor behind. I usually avoid weigh stations when loaded like this for obvious reasons I have hauled in excess of 16,000# on a few occasions, and this engine pulls like a mule. It does much better the 396 that I replaced, and is much better on fuel. My buddy has newer rollback with a 454 (or Vortec 7400 as they call it now) in it, and my truck runs up hills much better than his. He would even tell you that.

I little thing that a lot of people do not know is that 882's flow very good for stock heads. In fact, they flow better than old double hump, fuelie, baby butt, --insert your name here--, camel hump heads from '64 to '70. They have a big 76cc combustion chamber that works well with a flattop 383. Makes about 9.6 : 1 compression. Mine will run on 87 octane all day. I have logged about 15,000 miles on since the rebuild last year. I have built a lot of 383's but this was the first budget build I have done. The others were race engines. I really think you would enjoy the tremendous low end torque of the 383.

[67_C-30]

P.S. I know I'm not at 400HP with mine, but I wasn't building a performance engine. My torque is probably 400 or better at lower RPM than a Hi perf engine would be. I just was saying that a 383 can be built pretty cheap these days.

[special-K]

Yeah,PAW sells the kit for that cheap.Alot depends on machine costs and what you already have.383s are awesome truck motors that GM never built.

[JAKES 68GMC]

I just want to build one up for a spare engine, if the 305 ever goes. (which I highly doubt it will). I've been adding it up roughly, and I think i could build one pretty cheap. Maybe a 377, since 6 cubic inches won't matter much, and it would be reasonably cheaper.

[mrein3]

I did mine for right around $1200.
Nothing fancy. I re-used my heads because I recently had a valve job done. The DIFFERENCE between doing a 383 and doing a 350 right makes it a no-brainer which is how I ended up with a 383.

They make piston kits that work with your 350 rods.

You need a 400 crank shaft and balancer. To do the 350 right you'd need to spend money on your used crank shaft. The difference between somebody going over your 350 crank shaft verses getting a 400 crank ready to go is minimal.

I have an itemized price list on my computer at work - if it survived the hard drive crash I experienced recently. If this thread is still floating around and there is interest I'll dig up that list and post it.

[JAKES 68GMC]

They make 383 cranks that have 3.75 stroke, but bolt in to a 350 journal size. Scat has a cast one for 190 bucks.

[PanelDeland]

GM now does a 383 with a 3.80 stroke crank, that is in a factory block with enough clearance.I saw the write up in one of the mags.Uses stock 350 bore. The GM one is a crate motor.

[JAKES 68GMC]

Originally Posted by 67_C-30

P.S. I know I'm not at 400HP with mine, but I wasn't building a performance engine. My torque is probably 400 or better at lower RPM than a Hi perf engine would be. I just was saying that a 383 can be built pretty cheap these days.

No, I don't care about 400hp either (I'd hurt myself ), I just wanted to build something with a lot of torque for a spare engine. I figured a stroker 350 was a good candidate. Plus I'd like to build one for the fun of it. I think I could do this cheap enough if I paid attention.

Are there any books/manuals out there that tell you step by step how to build a stroker 350?

[Ricks1971]

The key to building a good stroker motor if you are using a 400 crank or even a scat crank is that a 400 is a external balanced motor. This means you need to balance the crank to the harmonic balancer and the flex plate or flywheel. If not the engine with shake. Scat says the have a crank that is internal balanced but I would still balance your bottom end to be safe. Your best bet is to find a 400 sbc with the 509 castings and build that as the power you are looking for is there already. Just my personal option!

[ChevyDude]

ZZ383 is $1000.00 plus .....only another 4000.00 or so Not to highjack the thread...but the ZZ has some nice things.

ZZ383/425 Hot Street Engine
P/N 12498772
With GM’s legendary Fast Burn cylinder heads and 383 cubic inches, the ZZ383/425 delivers incredible torque with smooth, linear delivery. If you’re looking for a small-block package that delivers big-block power, then you’ve found it. 425 horsepower at an incredibly low 5400 RPM, and 449 ft.lbs. of torque at 4500 RPM make this the ideal hot street engine.
The excellent air handling and combustion characteristics of the Fast Burn cylinder heads combined with the ZZ383/425’s 3.800” stroke, make this engine the benchmark against which all other 383 inch small-blocks should be measured. And it’s tough, too. The 4340 nitrided and induction hardened crank and unique forged PM rods see to that. The 9.7 to 1 compression ratio ensures that the ZZ383/425 is 92 octane pump gas friendly.
The ZZ383/425 gets a stout .509/.528 lift steel camshaft with 222/230 duration at .050 lift. Hydraulic roller lifters and GM’s time tested 1.5 to 1 roller rocker arms round out the valve train. And, of course, it has the Fast Burn head’s lightweight stainless steel valves and retainers for reliable performance at extended RPM.
GM’s testing was completed using a GM single plane intake, P/N 12496822 and a 750 CFM Demon carburetor with mechanical secondaries. Test header specs are: 1-3/4” primaries, 33 inches long with a 4-inch collectors. GM dual plane intake P/N 12366573 may be used for hood clearance on the ZZ383/425, but it results in a decrease in peak horsepower of approximately 15-20 horsepower.
Now Available!
We just got our first shipment in.
03-29-2004
Type the part number in the Price Search for price.



ZZ383/425 TECHICAL INFORMATION
Horsepower: 425 @ 5400 RPM Torque: 449 @ 4500 RPM
Max. Rec. RPM: 6,000 Comp. Ratio: 9.7:1¹
Displacement: 383 ci Bore x Stroke: 4.00” x 3.80”
Block: 88962516 Four bolt main, cast iron Firing Order: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Con. Rods: 12497624 PM 5.7” PM Steel Rocker Arms: 12370838 1.5 ratio roller rockers kit
Pistons: 12499103 High Silicon Aluminum, .005 O/S Piston Rings: 12499107 .005 O/S
Camshaft: 12370846 Lift: 0.509” I, 0.528” E
Duration: 222° I, 230° E @ .050” Lift Centerline: 112°
Valve Lash: Zero Timing Chain: 14088783 8 mm single roller design.
Cylinder Heads: 12464289 Fast Burn Volume: 62 cc
Head Gasket: 10105117 (.028” compressed thickness)
Intake Valves: 12555331, 2.00” dia. Exhaust Valves: 12551313, 1.55” dia.
Valve Springs: 12551483 Oil Pan: 5 quart with new filter.
Oil Pres. (norm): 40 psi @ 2,000 RPM Oil Filter: UPF1218 ACDelco Ultra Gold
Spark Plugs: R44LTS or R42LTS for racing Fuel: Premium 92 Octane or greater
Partial Engine: 12499106 Damper: 12498008
Crankshaft: 12489436 4340 steel alloy (forged), one piece rear seal design, 3.8” stroke, 2.45 main journals/ 2.10” rod journals (standard 350 engine), main and rod journals are fully radiused, number 1 & 4 crank pins hollowed, cross drill oiling, rod and main oil chamfered, 3.00” flange bolt circle, nitride treated, and main bearing bolt torque.
Intake Manifold: None supplied with this crate engine.
Water Pump: None supplied with this crate engine.
Ignition Timing: 32° total @ 3000 RPM with vacuum advance line disconnected and plugged. This setting will produce 32° of total advance at wide open throttle (WOT).
Flexplate: 14088765 12-3/4” outside diameter, 153 tooth, 10.75” bolt pattern.
Technical Notes: 1 - GM recommends a Demon 750 CFM or Holley 750 CFM carburetor for ZZ383 applications.
2 - In 2004 GM redesigned the pistons and rings and they are .005" over sized now. This was done to better improve piston to cylinder wall clearance. The .005” O/S pistons and rings are the recommended standard size for all second design 383 ci engines. The first design ring and piston sets were: [Rings - 12522848 std. 4.00”, Pistons - 12489437 std. 4.00" (piston & pin set).]
Note¹: The GMPP catalog states that the compression ratio is 9.1:1 which is wrong. The compression ratio is 9.7:1 for the ZZ383/425 where the compression ratio is 9.1:1 for the HT 383 which uses a thicker head gasket.


ADDITIONAL PARTS THAT WILL WORK WITH THE ZZ383/425
Flywheel: Like all small-block V8 engines produced since 1986, the ZZ 383/425 crate engine has a 3.00” diameter flywheel flange bolt pattern. Small-block V8 engines produced from 1958 through 1985 had a 3.58” diameter flywheel flange bolt pattern. This change in bolt circle diameter was made to accommodate a leak-resistant one piece rear main seal.

Pilot Bearing: You must install a pilot bearing in the rear of the crankshaft if the engine will be used with a manual transmission. The pilot bearing aligns the transmission input shaft with the crankshaft centerline. A worn or misaligned pilot bearing can cause shifting problems and rapid clutch wear. A roller pilot bearing P/N 10461685 is recommended for this engine. This heavy duty bearing adds an extra margin of reliability to a high performance drivetrain.

Starter: The ZZ383/425 does not include a starter. The starter must be matched to the flywheel or flexplate diameter when installing the ZZ383/425 engine. Small diameter flywheels are 12-3/4” and have 153 teeth. Large diameter flywheels are 14” and have 168 teeth. This difference in flywheel diameter requires two different starter housings. Starter noses used with 14” diameter flywheels have two offset bolt holes; starters used with 12-3/4” flywheels have bolt holes that are straight across from each other.
Starters that can be used with the ZZ383/425 are: P/N 10496870, 1876552, 14097278, 14097279, 10455709, 9000852, 14037733, and 12338064.
Note - Chevrolet starter motors use special shoulder mounting bolts which register the starter on the block.

Carburetor/Air Cleaner: A 750 cfm four-barrel carburetor with either mechanical or vacuum operated secondaries and electric choke is recommended for the ZZ383/425 engine.
A foam or paper element, low restriction air cleaner should be used. The fuel mixture distribution can be upset if no diffuser is used, causing poor power and misfiring at high engine speeds. Always check for adequate hood clearance when installing a new air cleaner. GMPP has two chromed, 14” diameter, open element air assemblies for single four-barrel carburetors. P/N 12342079 has a plain top, and P/N 12342071 has a Chevrolet logo. Both of these are supplied with a 3” tall filter element P/N 6421746 (AC P/N A212cw). A taller 4” element is available as P/N 8997189 (AC P/N A698c).

Fuel Pump: The ZZ383/425 crate engine does not include a fuel pump. The fuel system must be capable of supplying adequate fuel volume at a minimum of 6 psi pressure when the engine is operating at wide open throttle (WOT). A high volume in-line electric fuel pump is available from GMPP P/N 25115899. This heavy duty pump flows 72 gallons per hour at 6-8 psi outlet pressure.

Spark Plugs/Spark Plug Wires: The ZZ 383/425 crate engine comes with spark plugs P/N 5613611 (AC P/N R44LTS). If you are installing the engine in a vehicle originally equipped with a small-block V8 with HEI ignition, standard replacement spark plug wires can be used. High performance 8 mm diameter wire sets with Chevrolet Bow Tie logo or GMPP logo are available from GMPP for custom installations. The GMPP logo wire sets are available as P/N 12361056 (135° spark plug boots) and P/N 12361057 (90° spark plug boots). The Chevrolet logo wire sets are P/N 12361050 (135° spark plug boots) and 12361051 (90°spark plug boots). The 135° spark plug boot set is recommended for routing the spark plug wires over the valve covers. The 90° spark plug boot set is recommended for routing the spark plug wires under exhaust headers. For extended highway use, you may want to upgrade spark plugs to 41-942 Dual Platinum P/N 25164048.

Rocker Covers: The ZZ383/425 comes equipped with black stamped steel, center hold-down rocker covers. A black composite center hold-down bolt LT4 type rocker cover is available (P/N 12552321 LH and P/N 12552322 RH). Also chrome center hold-down bolt rocker covers with a red chevrolet Bow Tie logo are available (P/N 12355350 LH and RH). The Fast Burn Heads will also accept the older “Rim Mount” style valve covers, for those that prefer those to the newer style “Center Bolt” valve covers, and no adapter is needed because they designed for ether style valve cover to bolt right on.

Still Not Good Enough: Our Race Shop can customize the ZZ383/425 to fit your needs all the way to a complete Turnkey engine ready to drop in. Our Race Shop is in-house for maximum quality control. We do not farm out our engine building to a third party like most on-line parts stores do. Call and talk to one of our Counter Sales people for details and warranty information on this engine. A complete price quote including shipping cost can be put together for you if you call and are seriously considering buying.

[Sweet72]

Jake, A 377 is a de-stroked 400. I don't think you will be able to do it right for 1000 bucks. Maybe 1500-1700 if you do all the assembly work and have all the hand tools required to assemble and check the clearances etc. I don't know of a book specifically on building a 383. Go to speedomotive.com website and read their engine building tips. Talk to the machine shop, they're usually the best place for real world advice on engine building. I used the Scat 383 internally balanced cast crank, and the machinist had to drill the counter balances alot to get it right. Cost me 200 to have it balanced. The chinese cranks (Scat, Eagle) are supposedly good to 5000 rpm.

[PanelDeland]

I beleive the 377 is also more for rpm's than torque.That means lower gears and higher rpm's to get the power.

[JAKES 68GMC]

I'm not sure, but I think there are 2 377's. A destroked 400 like your talking about, and a 350 with a 3.75 stroker crank and stock size pistons. A 383 involves boring the 350 block .030 over, as far as I know. I could be wrong though. Maybe I'll hunt around for a rebuildable 400. That'd be cheaper.

[dougs69c10]

you can bore a 350 out to around 377, but its at like .060 over I believe, which kills the durability of the motor with that thin of cylinder walls

[67_C-30]

No, Jake is right. A stock bore 350 with a 4.00" bore and a 3.75" stroke is a 377. The formula for cubic inches is Bore X Bore X Stroke X .7854 X No of Cylinders. A .060" over 350 is 360 cubic inches. (360.422" to be exact) PAW makes a stock bore 377 kit. There is a 377 with a 400 block and 350 crank, but Jake was talking about it the other way around. There's nothing wrong with going with a 400, but they do tend to run hotter, and are less forgiving if you do happen to get them hot. If you bought a 400 for a good price, it would be cheaper though if you run up on one. If you're like me, and have 5 or 6 350's at any given moment, its cheaper to go 383.

Also, if you buy the kind of 383 kit I did, they come statically balanced for a external (400) balancer and flywheel/flexplate. Balncing is not neccessary in a street engine that is not going to be used for sustained high RPM use. I think the PAW and Speed-O-Motive kits are this way also, although you should find out for sure before buying.

[JAKES 68GMC]

SO if I were to build a 383, all I'd need is to clearence the block for the crank, buy a 383 crank and a 400 balancer, and I'm all set?? Is there anything else I'm missing? Sorry if these are dumb questions, I'm still learning a lot of this engine stuff.

[wibilly]

jake you also need the flywheel from a 400

[JAKES 68GMC]

Whats the difference between a 350 and 400 flywheel?

[Sweet72]

The 400 has a unique flywheel that will accept weight for balancing the rotating assembly and the 350 is neutrally balanced.

[67_C-30]

Well, you didn't mention pistons, but I'm pretty sure you know you need them. They have a higher wristpin location than a 350 piston. If you were pieceing it together you would also have to clearance the rods (if they are 350 rods) to clear the cam, buy "stroker" rods already clearanced (expensive), or you could buy a cam ground on a .100" smaller lobe circle and buy .100" longer pushrods (also expensive). Most of the kits come with clearanced rods. If you want to clearance a set of stock rods you can, but then you would need to at least weight match them. A 383 kit would save you a lot of money and work in the long run, and they are priced very reasonable these days. We were building these back in the early 80's using turned down 400 cranks, and the kits make it much easier!!

Clearancing the block is not that big of a deal. What I usually do buy one rod bearing(not a set) from a parts store, and put a piston w/o rings in each cylinder, snug the rod bolts down and rotate the engine with the crankshaft sitting in the mains on the top bearings(the block will obviously be upside down on the stand) and clearance the block as needed. You can then be sure that you KNOW you will have no problems. After you get done, make sure you clean the block, crank and piston/rod assembly you used thoroughly. You would also need a 400 flywheel or flexplate as they are also different than the 350.

Here is a blueprint of how much you need to clearance the 350 rod to clear the cam if you decided to go that route. I took these dimensions from 383 stroker kit rod that I built about 10 years ago for a '67 Camaro.

[67_C-30]

Oh, I forgot to mention this also. You can also use a 5.565" 400 rod, but it requires a different piston than the 5.700" 350 rod does. This not as popular as it used to be, but it is doable. The rod/stoke ratio and angle is better with a 350 rod than the 400 rod. Most of the kits use a 350 rod these days, but we used to run the pi$$ out of those 400 rod 383's years ago!!

[E's c10swbfleet]

Here is the article
hotrod.com/techarticles/79478/ the article is called new & improved

[mrein3]

I used the kit with the .030 over pistons that work with stock 350 rods (with the higher wrist pin).

My price list was as follows:
Crankshaft $200.00
400 Balancer (used) $30.00
Balance job $200.00
Cut con rods for cam clearance $20.00
400 flywheel $30.00
clearance block for con rod clearance $15.00
ARP con rod bolts $38.00
Oil pumpdrive $8.00
Oil pumpsump $9.00
"Performance engine Kit: Sealed power moly rings, Fel pro gaskets, con rod bearings, main bearings, cam bearings, block plugs, 383 pistons, three piece timing set, oil pump" $317.00
R&R block plugs $10.00
degrease block $35.00
deck block $50.00
bore & deck-plate hone cyl(s) $80.00
deck-plate charge $10.00
"Remove, install, & fit cam bearings " $25.00
Recon con rods $80.00
Pin fit new pistons $28.00
Assemble short block $75.00
Sales tax $26.13
Total $1,286.13

You can easily save the $75 by assembling it your self. I got real busy at work when the guy was done doing the machine work. Since he is semi-retired he was looking for something to do so he didn't charge me much. Certainly not an hourly rate.

Unless you trust your self enough to do all that machine work your self I doubt you'll get by much if any cheaper than $1300.

Also don't forget, I'm leaving some performance on the table so to speak. I'm using stock 350 heads that not too long ago got a valve job. I could get more performance out of a new set of heads. But then I'm in for more than $1300.