Trailering questions - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

86SILVERADO · 12-19-2002, 11:15 PM

Hey folks,

Can anyone explain to me the dynamics of towing long trailers? I have an 86 1/2 ton. I tow an 18' trailer with a John Deere 855 and on the highway at anything over 45 I have the white knuckle grip on the steering wheel. That trailer tosses my truck around like it is a damn volkswagen bug. I have been in some very dangerous sway situations. I am not quite ready to buy a three ton dump which is what I really ought to do. In the meantime I am looking for something that will help. I have a set of ride rite air shocks by firestone from my last truck. I didn't have this truck long before I wrecked it and didn't have a chance to do much towing with it to see if the air shocks really made a difference. Any opinions? If I remember correctly they weren't bolt on and the mounting bracket had to be welded to the frame so I really want to know if it is worth the trouble to re-install them on my new truck. Any ideas appreciated.

Norris

**ThreeQuarter** · 12-19-2002, 11:53 PM

How is the load distributed on your trailer? When I load a trailer I like to place the weight as close as I can to two-thirds/one-third or 60/40 front/rear (in front of/behind the trailer axles). A 50/50 balance will tend to shift back and forth and buck the truck like crazy, but more weight on the front of the trailer will keep the rear end of the truck more firmly planted.

Since you have leafs, there are several brands of extra leaf setups you can buy to use and you should shop around and find the one you like best.

Even if you balance the trailer right, sounds like you need more spring and some HD shocks. Good luck and let us know what you end up doing.

Ben

Seon · 12-20-2002, 12:48 PM

It sounds like you need more of the tractor's weight forward.
I haul a John Deere 750 with front loader and box scraper on an 18' trailer. I make sure that the tractor's weight is more up front than the rear. But I also tow it with an F350 Dually.

BTW..I went with a girl who worked for the tractor company in PA. but being I lived in CA it was a long distant affair. I guess she got lonely and found someone else then wrote me a John Deere letter.

Sorry, I couldn't pass that up. Good luck.

86SILVERADO · 12-20-2002, 01:51 PM

Thanks for the replies, guys. Unfortunately I am flat broke right now so I won't be doing much of anything right away. Are you saying that stiffer springs would counteract the sway? Also I do run my machine right up to the front of the trailer so the bucket is right against the front railing on the trailer. Thanks again.

Norris

**ThreeQuarter** · 12-20-2002, 02:18 PM

All depends where the center of gravity (COG) of the load is. I would expect that moving a tractor of that (small) size all the way to the front of an 18' trailer will do the trick, but you really should find the ~60/40 balance to get the best balance. Too much weight too far forward will squat the rear and pick up the front of your pickup. If you have an implement attached to the rear of the trailer it will change the COG, too. Load it in several places and drive around the block to get a feel for what works best.

Yes, more spring will help to stabilize big loads. Less bouncy-bouncy.

Seon · 12-20-2002, 03:05 PM

Put the bucket up pull the tractor further forward then lower the bucket on the tongue of the trailer. Be sure the bucket doesn't interfere with the turning radius (hitting your truck). If that doesn't work, back your tractor on the trailer ensure that more weight is at the front. This will cost you nothing. Try it and let us know.

raceman6135 · 12-24-2002, 04:28 AM

If you are currently running 10% tongue weight (and it sounds like you are), check the trailer tires. They MUST be the same size, same make, same load rating and inflated to the same pressure.

Don't run passenger car tires on a trailer. Seriously.

Is this a tandem or triple axle trailer? Are there any problems with the trailer's suspension? Check the tire wear patterns: the tires may be trying to tell you about an axle alignment problem, in which case, no matter what leaf springs you put on your truck, you're gonna have problems!

DJS

86SILVERADO · 12-24-2002, 10:58 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate it. I haven't had a chance to test out any of your ideas because I lost the glow plug relay to my tractor and haven't been able to get it on the trailer to take it for a ride (typical scenario for me). I got one from the local dealership for ten bucks, it was the wrong one. They acknowledged that they made a mistake and the right one is of course 50 bucks (also typical). As soon as I get the thing up and running I will let you know my findings. DJS thanks for the suggestions: The trailer is basically brand new and there isn't any wear to speak of on the tires yet. It is a dual axle trailer and heavy duty tires on it (D or E). Funny though because I was under it once and the axle tubes looked bent to me (arched upwards sort of) but my father has the same trailer (also brand new) and his looked the same way so I figured it was normal. The trailer is a Big Tex rated at 7000 lbs. I did have some jerk at a gravel pit dump a full four yard bucket full of processed gravel on it (roughly 6 tons) once. I just drove back home maybe two miles and offloaded it but now that you mention it I may have a closer look at the thing. Thanks again and Merry Christmas to y'all.

Norris

Seon · 12-26-2002, 05:41 PM

1. Check your J.D. for an engine heater by looking for an electrical 3 prong plug which you plug into a 110 household current. Let it "warm" for a couple of hours. The engine should start without using the glow plug. BTW bring your glow plug to a NAPA parts store and see if they can match it and if so, it'll probably cost much less than $50.

2. Your description on the axles tells me there's nothing wrong with it.

3. Each axle (you have tandem) is rated for 3500 lbs which equals to 7000 lbs. The load of gravel did not hurt your axles.

I think you're making too much out of this. Just load your tractor more towards the front, either backing it in or bucket first. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that you'll find that your fish-tailing will be gone.

Better yet, here's a Tractor forum you can post your concerns which I'm sure will be answered quickly... Good luck

http://jplan.com/cgi-bin/tractor/sea....pl?topic=750+

86SILVERADO · 12-26-2002, 06:14 PM

Thanks Seon. My machine doesn't have a block heater, and the problem is that I lost the relay so I don't have any part numbers to give any of the guys at Napa. I haven't tried them yet though and I may just give it a shot anyway. I will try out the dif. ways of loading the tractor and let you know if it helps. Thanks again.

Norris

LILREDGMC · 12-28-2002, 10:11 AM

Everyone's giving you great info. When I load my tandem with anything, I try to do it on a level surface, and you can actually see the weight transfer to the front axle as the vehicle/tractor rolls slowly forward. Too much tongue is way better than not enough, but you will feel it as if someone was always pushing down on the bed. The upward arc of the axles is a common look, not to know why, but supposing that as you load the trailer with more weight and reach the limits, any deflection will be to a straight condition not bowed down with a result of camber on the tires and wheels.

Springs and shocks can help, but after towing a good bit with the 71 GMC swb I really got spoiled after towing with the Longhorn. What a difference! The 3/4 ton and much longer wheelbase made alot of difference. The only fault is less maneuverability. I was going to originally part out the Longhorn and keep some of the choice parts but after towing its now to be restored and used as the tow vehicle of choice.

Weight of the towed load versus the tow vehicle plays a role as well. The longer the wheelbase and heavier the truck the more stability, again as long as its loaded right.

My 2 cents, hope this helps.

86SILVERADO · 12-29-2002, 12:34 AM

Thanks for the reply LILRED. I do have a LWB truck but it is only half ton. The more I think about it the more I think it has to do with the weight of my truck and the 1/2 ton springs. I know that my three year old son can practically pick up a half ton rear end. I have a 14 bolt that I can barely roll by myself. I don't really want the 4:10's though which is why I haven't installed it (besides lack of an 8 lug front end for it as well). I think what I really want is a dana 60 with 3:54 or maybe put some 3:73 in my FF 14 bolt. Always more bright ideas than time though.

Norris

6869704X4 · 01-10-2003, 04:01 PM

I know you said you were broke and these cost money but my brothers trailer has a sway dampener on it. Says it makes a world of difference.
Something to try if all else fails and you have some cash.

86SILVERADO · 01-10-2003, 08:20 PM

Thanks for the reply man. That is something I had not thought of. I will look into that.

Norris

12-19-2002, 11:15 PM	#1
86SILVERADO Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hills of Western Mass Posts: 626	Trailering questions Hey folks, Can anyone explain to me the dynamics of towing long trailers? I have an 86 1/2 ton. I tow an 18' trailer with a John Deere 855 and on the highway at anything over 45 I have the white knuckle grip on the steering wheel. That trailer tosses my truck around like it is a damn volkswagen bug. I have been in some very dangerous sway situations. I am not quite ready to buy a three ton dump which is what I really ought to do. In the meantime I am looking for something that will help. I have a set of ride rite air shocks by firestone from my last truck. I didn't have this truck long before I wrecked it and didn't have a chance to do much towing with it to see if the air shocks really made a difference. Any opinions? If I remember correctly they weren't bolt on and the mounting bracket had to be welded to the frame so I really want to know if it is worth the trouble to re-install them on my new truck. Any ideas appreciated. Norris

12-19-2002, 11:53 PM	#2
ThreeQuarter Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Texan in Iowa Posts: 2,522	How is the load distributed on your trailer? When I load a trailer I like to place the weight as close as I can to two-thirds/one-third or 60/40 front/rear (in front of/behind the trailer axles). A 50/50 balance will tend to shift back and forth and buck the truck like crazy, but more weight on the front of the trailer will keep the rear end of the truck more firmly planted. Since you have leafs, there are several brands of extra leaf setups you can buy to use and you should shop around and find the one you like best. Even if you balance the trailer right, sounds like you need more spring and some HD shocks. Good luck and let us know what you end up doing. Ben __________________ Ben '68 Chevy C10 Custom LWB 327/TH400 2nd owner '16 GMC Sierra 1500 SLE Dblcab 4wd 5.3

12-20-2002, 01:51 PM	#4
86SILVERADO Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hills of Western Mass Posts: 626	Thanks for the replies, guys. Unfortunately I am flat broke right now so I won't be doing much of anything right away. Are you saying that stiffer springs would counteract the sway? Also I do run my machine right up to the front of the trailer so the bucket is right against the front railing on the trailer. Thanks again. Norris __________________ 86 Silverado C10 back to 305 power! 67 C30 Dually Dump, with 350 transplant, Rockhauler 05 Duramax 3500 "If at first you don't succeed, try a bigger hammer" Member of the 1-Ton club!

12-20-2002, 02:18 PM	#5
ThreeQuarter Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Texan in Iowa Posts: 2,522	All depends where the center of gravity (COG) of the load is. I would expect that moving a tractor of that (small) size all the way to the front of an 18' trailer will do the trick, but you really should find the ~60/40 balance to get the best balance. Too much weight too far forward will squat the rear and pick up the front of your pickup. If you have an implement attached to the rear of the trailer it will change the COG, too. Load it in several places and drive around the block to get a feel for what works best. Yes, more spring will help to stabilize big loads. Less bouncy-bouncy. __________________ Ben '68 Chevy C10 Custom LWB 327/TH400 2nd owner '16 GMC Sierra 1500 SLE Dblcab 4wd 5.3

12-24-2002, 10:58 PM	#8
86SILVERADO Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hills of Western Mass Posts: 626	Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate it. I haven't had a chance to test out any of your ideas because I lost the glow plug relay to my tractor and haven't been able to get it on the trailer to take it for a ride (typical scenario for me). I got one from the local dealership for ten bucks, it was the wrong one. They acknowledged that they made a mistake and the right one is of course 50 bucks (also typical). As soon as I get the thing up and running I will let you know my findings. DJS thanks for the suggestions: The trailer is basically brand new and there isn't any wear to speak of on the tires yet. It is a dual axle trailer and heavy duty tires on it (D or E). Funny though because I was under it once and the axle tubes looked bent to me (arched upwards sort of) but my father has the same trailer (also brand new) and his looked the same way so I figured it was normal. The trailer is a Big Tex rated at 7000 lbs. I did have some jerk at a gravel pit dump a full four yard bucket full of processed gravel on it (roughly 6 tons) once. I just drove back home maybe two miles and offloaded it but now that you mention it I may have a closer look at the thing. Thanks again and Merry Christmas to y'all. Norris __________________ 86 Silverado C10 back to 305 power! 67 C30 Dually Dump, with 350 transplant, Rockhauler 05 Duramax 3500 "If at first you don't succeed, try a bigger hammer" Member of the 1-Ton club!

12-20-2002, 12:48 PM	#3
Seon Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Northern CA. Posts: 503	It sounds like you need more of the tractor's weight forward. I haul a John Deere 750 with front loader and box scraper on an 18' trailer. I make sure that the tractor's weight is more up front than the rear. But I also tow it with an F350 Dually. BTW..I went with a girl who worked for the tractor company in PA. but being I lived in CA it was a long distant affair. I guess she got lonely and found someone else then wrote me a John Deere letter. Sorry, I couldn't pass that up. Good luck.

12-20-2002, 03:05 PM	#6
Seon Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Northern CA. Posts: 503	Put the bucket up pull the tractor further forward then lower the bucket on the tongue of the trailer. Be sure the bucket doesn't interfere with the turning radius (hitting your truck). If that doesn't work, back your tractor on the trailer ensure that more weight is at the front. This will cost you nothing. Try it and let us know.

12-24-2002, 04:28 AM	#7
raceman6135 Dino burner Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 602	If you are currently running 10% tongue weight (and it sounds like you are), check the trailer tires. They MUST be the same size, same make, same load rating and inflated to the same pressure. Don't run passenger car tires on a trailer. Seriously. Is this a tandem or triple axle trailer? Are there any problems with the trailer's suspension? Check the tire wear patterns: the tires may be trying to tell you about an axle alignment problem, in which case, no matter what leaf springs you put on your truck, you're gonna have problems! DJS

12-26-2002, 05:41 PM	#9
Seon Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Northern CA. Posts: 503	1. Check your J.D. for an engine heater by looking for an electrical 3 prong plug which you plug into a 110 household current. Let it "warm" for a couple of hours. The engine should start without using the glow plug. BTW bring your glow plug to a NAPA parts store and see if they can match it and if so, it'll probably cost much less than $50. 2. Your description on the axles tells me there's nothing wrong with it. 3. Each axle (you have tandem) is rated for 3500 lbs which equals to 7000 lbs. The load of gravel did not hurt your axles. I think you're making too much out of this. Just load your tractor more towards the front, either backing it in or bucket first. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that you'll find that your fish-tailing will be gone. Better yet, here's a Tractor forum you can post your concerns which I'm sure will be answered quickly... Good luck http://jplan.com/cgi-bin/tractor/sea....pl?topic=750+ Last edited by Seon; 12-26-2002 at 06:11 PM.

12-26-2002, 06:14 PM	#10
86SILVERADO Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hills of Western Mass Posts: 626	Thanks Seon. My machine doesn't have a block heater, and the problem is that I lost the relay so I don't have any part numbers to give any of the guys at Napa. I haven't tried them yet though and I may just give it a shot anyway. I will try out the dif. ways of loading the tractor and let you know if it helps. Thanks again. Norris

12-28-2002, 10:11 AM	#11
LILREDGMC Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA Posts: 461	Weight Distribution Everyone's giving you great info. When I load my tandem with anything, I try to do it on a level surface, and you can actually see the weight transfer to the front axle as the vehicle/tractor rolls slowly forward. Too much tongue is way better than not enough, but you will feel it as if someone was always pushing down on the bed. The upward arc of the axles is a common look, not to know why, but supposing that as you load the trailer with more weight and reach the limits, any deflection will be to a straight condition not bowed down with a result of camber on the tires and wheels. Springs and shocks can help, but after towing a good bit with the 71 GMC swb I really got spoiled after towing with the Longhorn. What a difference! The 3/4 ton and much longer wheelbase made alot of difference. The only fault is less maneuverability. I was going to originally part out the Longhorn and keep some of the choice parts but after towing its now to be restored and used as the tow vehicle of choice. Weight of the towed load versus the tow vehicle plays a role as well. The longer the wheelbase and heavier the truck the more stability, again as long as its loaded right. My 2 cents, hope this helps.

12-29-2002, 12:34 AM	#12
86SILVERADO Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hills of Western Mass Posts: 626	Thanks for the reply LILRED. I do have a LWB truck but it is only half ton. The more I think about it the more I think it has to do with the weight of my truck and the 1/2 ton springs. I know that my three year old son can practically pick up a half ton rear end. I have a 14 bolt that I can barely roll by myself. I don't really want the 4:10's though which is why I haven't installed it (besides lack of an 8 lug front end for it as well). I think what I really want is a dana 60 with 3:54 or maybe put some 3:73 in my FF 14 bolt. Always more bright ideas than time though. Norris Last edited by 86SILVERADO; 12-29-2002 at 12:36 AM.

01-10-2003, 04:01 PM	#13
6869704X4 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: SE NM Posts: 769	I know you said you were broke and these cost money but my brothers trailer has a sway dampener on it. Says it makes a world of difference. Something to try if all else fails and you have some cash. __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I love my truck.

01-10-2003, 08:20 PM	#14
86SILVERADO Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hills of Western Mass Posts: 626	Thanks for the reply man. That is something I had not thought of. I will look into that. Norris __________________ 86 Silverado C10 back to 305 power! 67 C30 Dually Dump, with 350 transplant, Rockhauler 05 Duramax 3500 "If at first you don't succeed, try a bigger hammer" Member of the 1-Ton club!



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