HOW TO: Split the brake lines (many have asked)

[ChiefRocka]

Here's a short write up on how I split the lines on my truck.

This is perfect for the person who wants to have a "split" system, but is not ready or cannot afford disc brake conversion right away.

Our trucks utilize a single line coming out of the stock master cylinder (whether manual or power). This single line is Tee'd off at the LF wheel, then again at the RF wheel.

From there, it runs to the rear of the truck which it feeds the rear brakes..where it is Tee'd again for the L and R rear wheels.

This system is fine...and has been for years. Although, as vehicles get older and related brake parts wear, you run the risk of looseing your brakes COMPLETELY if you blow a line, a wheel-cylinder, or even if the master goes out !!! Of course this does not cure problems elsewhere in your system, which should be checked and replaced as neccesary.

That could be scary or even DEADLY !!

I would sure hate to have an accident and injure one of my family members, or anyone else on the road for that matter.

So until I'm ready to do a full resto on my truck, I decide to upgrade the brake system using readily available, inexpensive off the shelf parts.

HERE WE GO:

The first thing to do is remove the stock master, along with the single line down to the first Tee.

The one on the left is the stock (obviously)

Now the one the right is a NEW drum/drum master I picked up at Kragens for under $30...I asked for a 67-70 IMPALA drum/drum car...non P/B....Can't beat the price !!!
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You then need to pick up some line and fittings. You can purchase straight lengths of line with end on them, or pick up the line and fittings seperate. I went to RoyalBrass (a local fitting store) and picked all the fittings and the line I needed to do the conversion...
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Two adapter fittings for the Master..four Inverted..one plug...and a union...


The master bolted up NICE
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[ChiefRocka]

Here's a shot at the R/F tee fitting....Located behind the crossmember under the frame rail:
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Disconnect the rear line...and plug the tee...then install a union on the rear line....
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Now, it's time to begin the bending. You will need a good quality bender to bend the lines. The black sharpie marks are guide marks used by me in conjuction with my bender. It has markings on the handle that you transfer to the tube, in order to determine where to start the bend.....Now start bending !!!
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[ChiefRocka]

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[ChiefRocka]

These reference pics show clearance of lines using a SB and Huggers:
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The new crossmember line can be installed with engine installed...these shot were taken when engine was out.

The front feed line was installed after the engine was in:
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The second line (pictured above) was ran down to the original first tee.

The push rod was also modified for this MC.

Pics to follow...

[ChiefRocka]

Originally Posted by TimE

Hey, John, can you sticky your own threads??

Sure can...and plan on it once I get this 'How-to' thread complete

Originally Posted by derider

I saw the torch laying there. Do you heat the line a little to get a better bend. I am going to be doing the iin the next couple weeks. Thanks for the thread!

I forget why the torch was there...but it was NOT to heat any line !!! Probably to loosen a rusy fastener.

Originally Posted by kizer

Nice work. Is it bad that I have literally 40 subscribed topics so I can find them later. This one included of course.

I have about that as well if not more !!!

[orange66fleet]

That is a very nice write-up with pictures, just wondering, what is the size of the tubing you used and what was the size of the existing tubing. You made it look easy, thanks for sharing.

[ChiefRocka]

I used the stock size tube which was 1/4".

Ask away all the questions you fellas might have....I will try to answer everything in this thread....as I will make a new one right before I "sticky" it.

[ChiefRocka]

Originally Posted by Barebones66

Excellent thread

Very helpful

thanks !!!

Originally Posted by kizer

Ok, I'm assuming your using the port on the master farthest towards the grill as your front connection and the one closest to your firewall as your rear wheels right or am I backwards or are you going to tell me it doesn't matter?

Yes...thats correct....I couldn't get it to bleed the other way.

Originally Posted by padresag

It would be benificial to most to show what you used for a plug to plug that fitting in the frt tee. for the uninitiated they would have a problem with that ( knowing what it was, and inding a counterperson that knew)
ron

I plan on a complete listing when I'm done with this...thanks

Originally Posted by padresag

'

you can buy a tube bender(not expensive), sandbag or you can find something which has the curve which you need and place the line on it and just slap the line with a flat piece of wood and form it around it. if you try bending it by hand you usually end up with a kink in it
ron

Sandbag.....thats why he mentioned the belly !!

Originally Posted by slepysal

man I got to get mine done!! Thanks John this will be a great help

You welcome !!!

Originally Posted by ol Curt

Did you have to bench bleed the master or is that just done for power brakes?

Originally Posted by ol Curt

Chief might have got tied up with something or hasn't been on. anybody else know about bleeding the master?

Originally Posted by Captainfab

All master cylinders should be bench bled regardless whether they are a manual or power.

Sorry man...I caught this nasty flu virus (that has gone thru my whole family and then some)...so I haven't been on here for a few days.

Thanks Captain....yes you should bench-bleed them. It amazing how much air is trapped in a new master.

[ChiefRocka]

Originally Posted by truckdude239

just a reminder to guys bending there own lines just remember if you have to flare please use double flares. i know its common sense please dont get offend.

Yes....that is important, and thanks for mentioning that if I didn't.

Originally Posted by LILRED66

Good stuff John...thanks for sharing.

Your Welcome !!

[ChiefRocka]

Originally Posted by joe231

i just wanted to add..................the 67-up truck masters work also, they can be had in drum/drum or disc/drum for under $30 too.

Yeap...that is corrrect. I went with an Impala, only because I had one sitting in the shop at the time for comparison.

Also, a '69 Vette will also be a dirrect bolt-up for a disc/disc !! Funny, how do I know about that ??

[jame]

Can some one explain what had to be done to the original push rod. I gathered all the parts to do this but dont want to break down the system until I know for sure what is involved in making the master cylinder work correctly. Thanks

[ChiefRocka]

Sorry I haven't had a chance to finish this topic up, and make it a sticky....I haven't been on in a while. My pops is in the ICU and not doing so good.

If I remember correctly, all I had to do was loosen the jam-nut and extend slightly to achieve a slight endplay.


Additional pics will follow shorty, with a parts list, as with some editing and then it get STUCK !!

[ChiefRocka]

Originally Posted by Chuck78

ditto on the fittings list! I'd like to have it all ready to go so I can put it together in one evening.

No need to do any type of proportioning or metering valve to give the fronts more fluid in a drum/drum setup??????

No need for a prop valve when using a drum/drum....the master takes care of the pressure differences...

Sorry, I'll get the fitting list soon...

Originally Posted by hAetWagon

I bench bleed my MC's by bolting it up, filling the reservoir and running a line from the port to the reservoir and pumping it. I never understood using a vise, etc. Thoughts?

Works the same way....on a vise you can watch it closely thats all.

[Chuck78]

Thought I should add that on my 1962 GMC with the Dana 44 rear end, where the front 1/4" line tees off to the rear, my line to the rear is a 3/16" line. I wasn't sure if it was the same thread on the 3/16" line as the 1/4" inverted flare fittings (possible, didn't get to check), but I picked up a 3/16" adapter bushing in addition to the two other adapter bushings for the masters.
One was a 5/16" to 1/4" adapter, and the other one was 9/16"-18 to 1/4" I think. This fit my new remanufactured 1967 Chevy/GMC truck 1-1/8" bore drum/drum master cylinder. Got one piece of 60" line as I think I read someone else saying they needed about 51", and then I got a second piece 40" long to replace the line from the old master down to the first tee by the left front wheel. This piece will need to be longer on mine at least, since my 62 manual trans master has the lines out the bottom. The lines came double flared on both ends with the 1/4" inverted flare fittings already on.

Advanced Auto Parts and Car Quest both had drawers full of these adapters, so it makes it pretty simple. Take your master with you and bush it down to 1/4".

what I got:
*60" of 1/4" line w/two inverted flare 1/4" fittings (for new rear line)
*40" of 1/4" line w/two inverted flare 1/4" fittings (for front line, from new location on side of new master to tee at left front junction - might make do with a 30")
*1/4" inv. flare coupling or union
*1/4" plug
*5/16" tube x 1/4" tube adapter bushing for master rear line (check your master)
*9/16"-18 thread to 1/4" tube adapter bushing for master front line (check your master)

DORMAN Part # M66787 More Info {First Stop #18008616, 3912128, 3941939, 5458531, 5458905} w/Power Brakes; Bore = 1-1/8"; RWD; Bendix; Exc. 11000 Lb Rear Axle$50.79



On the bushing sizes, I believe the thread sizes in the master are 9/16"x18 and 1/2"x20, but I listed the way Advance Auto Parts has them on my receipt.

Also it should be noted that I am replacing a 1-1/8" bore master with a 1-1/8" bore master. I am adding a power booster (the old style that uses these deep bore masters same as a manual master's bore). I read in one article that said if you are switching over to power, you can get away with running one size larger master cylinder bore diameter. So I could have ran 1-1/4", but I hope to reuse this master minus the front residual valve for swapping to power discs, which would have used a 1-1/8" bore power brake master. Did I confuse you yet?

I'm also dealing with a 60-62, so I have to get rid of my stock clutch/brake combo master and install a separate clutch master in the stock location, and using a power booster and custom made booster bracket to give me the room to run the clutch master in the stock clutch master location. See my other recent thread on this topic.

I have not fit all this up yet, but based on Cheif's writeup, I think all of this is correct.

[slepysal]

John you did have to drill new holes for the master right?

[ChiefRocka]

No, not at all...it bolted right up.

Course, thats cause us 63 and up guys are special !

[jonzcustomshop]

2 questions..
could Isee a pic of your tubing bender? not the belly the actual bender.
and, does this kind of system need a proportioning valve?

[ChiefRocka]

It looks like this one....I also have the Matco double flaring kit.
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Using a drum/drum master (two port Impala) you do not need a prop valve.
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[ljackson]

Hi Chief, Great write up. I am currently doing this on my '64. Got some questions. Did your old master have a 1" bore? What about the new one? My '64 is 1". The master at O'reilly's for a '70 Impala, drum/drum, no power, was 1 1/8. The master with a 1" bore was listed for discs with power. I believe I have read on other posts that using 1 1/8" master will make the brakes feel spongy. Do I have that right? Is the 1" bore the one to go with? I wonder if the parts store has it listed wrong? Thanks in advance for any help from anyone that can.
Eugene

[ChiefRocka]

Not exactly sure, I'd have to research that.

I went with one from a '67 Impala. At the time, my buddys 67 Impala was in my shop, so I compared them.

The brakes on the black truck worked great...full pressure and never spongy.

My new truck will recieve the same treatment, although this one will get 6-lugs discs.

[ljackson]

Here is some info on the MC I think I will use. I think the Pic is at the bottom. The my MC came from orielly;s part number 10-1339 the pic on their site shows a different MC

Fenco Reman / Master Cylinder (Brake System)
For your 1967 Chevrolet Truck C10 1/2 ton P/U 2WD 4.6L 2BL OHV 8cyl PREVIOUS
Price:$14.99

Core*Core value is the used part that manufacturers use for rebuilding. AutoZone charges the core value to customers because manufacturers include it in their prices. When you return your core to AutoZone, we'll refund your core charge.: $9.00

Total:$23.99AVAILABILITY: SEND TO STORE LISTAVAILABLENormally stocked at your local store.
SHIP TO HOMEAVAILABLEShips within 2 business days.

Part Number: M1505
Weight: 8.75 lbs
Warranty: LLT
Application: With front drum brakes

Notes: - installer warning - unit must be bench bled. If you experience any installation problems, call toll free: USA 1-866-787-5132 can 1-800-293-0760

Reservoir: With Reservoir - Built In
Bore Size: 1"
Cylinder Honing: Never Honed
New Sleeved Bore: Yes
Special Installation Notes Included: Yes
Primary - Hole Size and Location: 9/16"-18 Fender Side
Secondary - Hole Size and Location: 1/2"-20 Fender Side


Features & Benefits:

100% : New Sleeved Bore, New Epdm (Ethylene Propylene Diene M) Seals & O Rings, Computerized Multi Stage Tested. Push Rods On All Manual Applications, Includes Part Specific Bleeder Kit

[NF65Fleetside]

dug this one up cause I really want to do this. Question though, can I just buy new pre-bent lines from the Truck shop and make it a full on bolt in affair? I dont mind spending the extra cash since I dont have the time/space to fab up the lines myself.

[Byronic]

QUOTE: The push rod was also modified for this MC.
Any more info on this. I feel the need for a dual MC for safety reasons.
Nice work and write up.

[Chuck78]

the lines are real easy to bend, in fact, if just keeping the 4 whl drums, you don't even need to cut and flare the lines if you buy the right lengths, see my posts on this and it probably gives you the lengths I used. When doing discs up front, you will need a lot more plumbing for the prop valve and all.

[rain_man]

QUOTE: The push rod was also modified for this MC.
Any more info on this. I feel the need for a dual MC for safety reasons.
i have a 61 c10 and i think i have every thing i need to complete the master swap. im useing a master i bought from autozone for $15 bucks it is from a 67 c10.
just have a few questions first thanks
1. do i have to drill new holes for this master
2. what mods are needed for push rod(pics please)
3.what is everyone useing for brake lines (they said n/a at auto zone) mine are a little soft.

thanks for all the info