valve lash adjustment for v8 chevy.

[butch86]

i looked up and searched on here ways to set valve lash. i found a thread from a year ago or so and there were several ways listed there. i have always found traditional ways a little off in my mind even though its worked since the ohv v8 was made. i started working with crate racing usa several years ago and they have a great way to adjust valves with 2 rotations of the motor. its never failed to work and is a great way to adjust valves while motor installed in vehical.

here is what we do

#1 cylinder at TDC
adjust intake valves #2 and #7
adjust exaust valves#4 and #8

now rotate the engine 1/2 revelution
adjust intake valves #1 and #8
adjust exaust valve #3 and #6

rotate another 1/2 revelution
adjust intake valves #3 and #4
adjust exaust valve #5 and #7

rotate another 1/2 revelution
adjust intake valves #5 and #6
adjust exaust valves #1 and #2

to set the lash at 0 i spin and wiggle the push rod with my fingers as tightning the rocker nut or polly lock. when the push rod stops spinning and wiggleing i tighten the nut or polly lock 1/4 turn. i have used this method on every motor i have built or worked on for the last 12 to 13 years. and have never had an issue.

[HEI451]

Oh, boy, another method that does not get the base of the lifter to the center of the base circle of the cam.

There is only ONE method that gets EVERY lifter face dead centered on EVERY cam lobe base circle, no matter the cam type, no matter the grind. ONLY ONE.

It is outlined on the Competition Cams web site, and is called "The E-O, I-C Method".

If you want to do it right, that is the only way.

And, before we get all crazy over this post, there is a fellow on the 60 to 66 board,. right here on this site, that just did what I outlined with the E-O, I-C method, and fixed his engine, so, I'd appreciate not seeing posts with ways to do it that AIN'T the right way. I see a lot of the wrong way, every day, I fix it.

If anyone wishes to prove me wrong, please, we will need a bare block, cam and two lifters. Let me know when you get 'em, and we will go forth to prove me wrong.....or, dead right.

[lyrikz]

Originally Posted by HEI451

Oh, boy, another method that does not get the base of the lifter to the center of the base circle of the cam.

There is only ONE method that gets EVERY lifter face dead centered on EVERY cam lobe base circle, no matter the cam type, no matter the grind. ONLY ONE.

It is outlined on the Competition Cams web site, and is called "The E-O, I-C Method".

If you want to do it right, that is the only way.

And, before we get all crazy over this post, there is a fellow on the 60 to 66 board,. right here on this site, that just did what I outlined with the E-O, I-C method, and fixed his engine, so, I'd appreciate not seeing posts with ways to do it that AIN'T the right way. I see a lot of the wrong way, every day, I fix it.

If anyone wishes to prove me wrong, please, we will need a bare block, cam and two lifters. Let me know when you get 'em, and we will go forth to prove me wrong.....or, dead right.

Sometimes, some members need a little note of their accomplishments and what they do and have done. HEI, before last week i had no idea who you were. After last week i would blindly take every bit of advice you give. This man knows his stuff.

While we are on the topic. My freshly built flat tappet 454 has about 200 miles on it or so. Should i do a valve adjust? There is no noise anywhere, just checking.

[ol'blu72]

What is the importance of having the lifter at the very center of the base circle? Isnt the base circle the same height most of the way around?

[GASoline71]

On a stock camshaft you can "get away" with doing the adjustments like the PO described. Heck even some service manuals will tell you to do it this way.

But if you have an aftermarket cam, with longer duration and higher lift. You'll need to do it the E-O I-C way HEI451 talked about.

I do it that way on every cam and valvetrain system I have installed.

Gary

[T Smith]

Yep, do the intake when the exhaust is open, do the exhaust when the intake is open.

[HEI451]

Well, because the cams we all use have what is called "quieting ramps". These are small amounts of lift before and after the beginning of the real profile, and are there to keep the cam/lifter quiet. Setting a valve "on" a quieting ramp isn't the right way to do it, the lifter MUST be on the dead center of the camshaft base circle to do it right.

YES, do use the E-O, I-C method over again. One poster here had a vacuum issue with a small block in his truck, and I outlined the correct method, he went back to the engine, and redid the valve adjustment, using the E-O, I-C method, and the vacuum level came back to correct, the engine smoothed out, ram better and cooled correctly.

To re-post, E-O, I-C method:

Engine off, plugs removed, ignition system disabled, turn engine from balancer bolt, breaker bar, socket, normal direction of rotation.

Select a cylinder, you will do the valve adjustment for both valves, on that one cylinder, then go to the next cylinder.

Rotate the engine until the exhaust valve for the cylinder you are working on, just opens, SET THAT INTAKE VALVE.

Continue rotating the engine around, and watch the exhaust valve and the intake valve you just set, both open and close. When that intake valve just closes, SET THAT CYLINDER'S EXHAUST VALVE.

Move on to the next cylinder.

Here is a tip for those with solid lifter engines, and a specification for HOT setting of the valves. Run the engine to operating temperature, preferably, drive the vehicle as usual. When you stop the engine, pull one valve cover, and do the E-O, I-C method while the engine is still HOT. you are done for the day on that engine. Next operation would be with a dead cold engine. Spin the engine around for a few rotations, then do the E-O, I-C setup, but DON'T CHANGE/READJUST THE SETTINGS, READ THEM, COLD. You now have a cold setting for your hot valves, and can do the E-O, I-C easily, to the cold engine. I call it "Create a Specification", if you ain't got one, find and make your own.

Example for the solid lifter cams, lets say you have to have .024 inch lash, HOT. Set those two valves, with the E-O, I-C method, HOT, to .024. Next morning, you come out, do the engine rotation, then, check the COLD settings, they have magically tightened up to .019, over night. This is your new COLD setting, for your HOT set cam.

On top of what I do for a living, I have, for the last 15 years, been a working engine design engineer for one rider in motorcycle road racing. First, I worked on the 990 cc Honda V5 5 cylinder MotoGP engines. Then, we moved to Yamaha, and to the 800 cc MotoGP engines. Today, Ducati MotoGP, and back to the 1,000 cc engines. In the last 14 years, that rider has been MotoGP World Champion for 10 of those years. Before that, same for 10 years, at Kawasaki, and Yamaha. I also worked on Pro-Stock Dominator carbs at Holley, worked for Shelby on the Cobra's, and for Zora Arkus-Duntov at his GM (Chevy section) Skunk Works. I like diversity, and, a challenge.

Now, anyone got that bare block, cam and two lifters, so they can prove me to be an idiot, and, dead wrong on this valve adjustment stuff? I promise, it'll be painless on your end. Let me know, and I'll talk you through the two tests, and then, you can report the results back here, no other influence from me.

Please understand, I am NOT trying to embarrass, nor flame anyone, COMPLETELY OPPOSITE FROM THAT, just get you guys to do it the one right way. Where I live here, because of my decades of factory experience I have lived through, I get all the "(Fill in the name) just fixed my (fill in the blank), and, now, it don't work" disasters dropped off for resurrection from the murdered, with "Dave, please, please, fix it". Lets not have that happen here, please, I like to hear stuff is working well, not badly.

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by HEI451

To re-post, E-O, I-C method:

Engine off, plugs removed, ignition system disabled, turn engine from balancer bolt, breaker bar, socket, normal direction of rotation.

Select a cylinder, you will do the valve adjustment for both valves, on that one cylinder, then go to the next cylinder.

Rotate the engine until the exhaust valve for the cylinder you are working on, just opens, SET THAT INTAKE VALVE.

Continue rotating the engine around, and watch the exhaust valve and the intake valve you just set, both open and close. When that intake valve just closes, SET THAT CYLINDER'S EXHAUST VALVE.

Move on to the next cylinder.

Here is a tip for those with solid lifter engines, and a specification for HOT setting of the valves. Run the engine to operating temperature, preferably, drive the vehicle as usual. When you stop the engine, pull one valve cover, and do the E-O, I-C method while the engine is still HOT. you are done for the day on that engine. Next operation would be with a dead cold engine. Spin the engine around for a few rotations, then do the E-O, I-C setup, but DON'T CHANGE/READJUST THE SETTINGS, READ THEM, COLD. You now have a cold setting for your hot valves, and can do the E-O, I-C easily, to the cold engine. I call it "Create a Specification", if you ain't got one, find and make your own.

Wish we had an archive here for this kind of stuff to go into so it was always easy to find. Like a "wikipedia" for the site.

This is good stuff... good post.

Gary

[ol'blu72]

Move to FAQ??

[lyrikz]

Originally Posted by HEI451

Well, because the cams we all use have what is called "quieting ramps". These are small amounts of lift before and after the beginning of the real profile, and are there to keep the cam/lifter quiet. Setting a valve "on" a quieting ramp isn't the right way to do it, the lifter MUST be on the dead center of the camshaft base circle to do it right.

YES, do use the E-O, I-C method over again. One poster here had a vacuum issue with a small block in his truck, and I outlined the correct method, he went back to the engine, and redid the valve adjustment, using the E-O, I-C method, and the vacuum level came back to correct, the engine smoothed out, ram better and cooled correctly.

To re-post, E-O, I-C method:

Engine off, plugs removed, ignition system disabled, turn engine from balancer bolt, breaker bar, socket, normal direction of rotation.

Select a cylinder, you will do the valve adjustment for both valves, on that one cylinder, then go to the next cylinder.

Rotate the engine until the exhaust valve for the cylinder you are working on, just opens, SET THAT INTAKE VALVE.

Continue rotating the engine around, and watch the exhaust valve and the intake valve you just set, both open and close. When that intake valve just closes, SET THAT CYLINDER'S EXHAUST VALVE.

Move on to the next cylinder.

Here is a tip for those with solid lifter engines, and a specification for HOT setting of the valves. Run the engine to operating temperature, preferably, drive the vehicle as usual. When you stop the engine, pull one valve cover, and do the E-O, I-C method while the engine is still HOT. you are done for the day on that engine. Next operation would be with a dead cold engine. Spin the engine around for a few rotations, then do the E-O, I-C setup, but DON'T CHANGE/READJUST THE SETTINGS, READ THEM, COLD. You now have a cold setting for your hot valves, and can do the E-O, I-C easily, to the cold engine. I call it "Create a Specification", if you ain't got one, find and make your own.

Example for the solid lifter cams, lets say you have to have .024 inch lash, HOT. Set those two valves, with the E-O, I-C method, HOT, to .024. Next morning, you come out, do the engine rotation, then, check the COLD settings, they have magically tightened up to .019, over night. This is your new COLD setting, for your HOT set cam.

On top of what I do for a living, I have, for the last 15 years, been a working engine design engineer for one rider in motorcycle road racing. First, I worked on the 990 cc Honda V5 5 cylinder MotoGP engines. Then, we moved to Yamaha, and to the 800 cc MotoGP engines. Today, Ducati MotoGP, and back to the 1,000 cc engines. In the last 14 years, that rider has been MotoGP World Champion for 10 of those years. Before that, same for 10 years, at Kawasaki, and Yamaha. I also worked on Pro-Stock Dominator carbs at Holley, worked for Shelby on the Cobra's, and for Zora Arkus-Duntov at his GM (Chevy section) Skunk Works. I like diversity, and, a challenge.

Now, anyone got that bare block, cam and two lifters, so they can prove me to be an idiot, and, dead wrong on this valve adjustment stuff? I promise, it'll be painless on your end. Let me know, and I'll talk you through the two tests, and then, you can report the results back here, no other influence from me.

Please understand, I am NOT trying to embarrass, nor flame anyone, COMPLETELY OPPOSITE FROM THAT, just get you guys to do it the one right way. Where I live here, because of my decades of factory experience I have lived through, I get all the "(Fill in the name) just fixed my (fill in the blank), and, now, it don't work" disasters dropped off for resurrection from the murdered, with "Dave, please, please, fix it". Lets not have that happen here, please, I like to hear stuff is working well, not badly.

HEI451. After a fresh motor rebuild and break in. How many miles do you drive it before you do your first valve adjustment. Flat tappet cam.?

[HEI451]

Hydraulic, never, I do it on the engine stand during the engine build, don't have to do it again. The nice thing about doing the adjustment on the engine stand when building the engine, no vehicle around the engine to get in the way. And, with the intake manifold off the engine, I can look at each lifter in the valley, see when it starts, and stops moving, to bet the engine in the right position for adjusting the valve I am working with.

Solid lifter cams, I do the first adjustment at 600 miles, then, every 5,000, or as needed. Hey, you did know the solid lifter cam was fully labor intensive, didn't you? Well, this IS that labor intensive stuff.

[lyrikz]

I have no idea what i have. I dont know if its hydraulic or solid. I dont think its solid lifter.

[HEI451]

You guys should all amble over to the "Electrical" board here. In the "Skip White HEI distributor review" topic, I am getting really beat up about HEI module failure. Nice to know that I do real, live HEI conversions into point distributors every day, for a living, but never knew I was so stupid about them, being one of the people at GM that was part of developing them, way back when.

I'd figure if you pulled a valve cover off the engine, and tried to move all the rockers from side to side, and DOES NOT get ones that are loose, and have clearance, the cam would be a hydraulic grind, because a solid lifter cam wouldn't let the engine run with NO valve clearances.

I'm gonna go quiet now, I'm tired of getting beat up for attempting to get everybody to do it the right way, while educating same to how it really works, and getting constantly hammered for my efforts. Take care, guys, I've really enjoyed trying to help/educate the majority of you.

[ol'blu72]

[lyrikz]

HEI, i dont think anyone is beating up on you. Some are just stuck in their ways ya know.

[gysgtc]

Is it a 1/2 turn after no free play? 3/4 turn? 1 turn? thanks

Originally Posted by HEI451

Well, because the cams we all use have what is called "quieting ramps". These are small amounts of lift before and after the beginning of the real profile, and are there to keep the cam/lifter quiet. Setting a valve "on" a quieting ramp isn't the right way to do it, the lifter MUST be on the dead center of the camshaft base circle to do it right.

YES, do use the E-O, I-C method over again. One poster here had a vacuum issue with a small block in his truck, and I outlined the correct method, he went back to the engine, and redid the valve adjustment, using the E-O, I-C method, and the vacuum level came back to correct, the engine smoothed out, ram better and cooled correctly.

To re-post, E-O, I-C method:

Engine off, plugs removed, ignition system disabled, turn engine from balancer bolt, breaker bar, socket, normal direction of rotation.

Select a cylinder, you will do the valve adjustment for both valves, on that one cylinder, then go to the next cylinder.

Rotate the engine until the exhaust valve for the cylinder you are working on, just opens, SET THAT INTAKE VALVE.

Continue rotating the engine around, and watch the exhaust valve and the intake valve you just set, both open and close. When that intake valve just closes, SET THAT CYLINDER'S EXHAUST VALVE.

Move on to the next cylinder.

Here is a tip for those with solid lifter engines, and a specification for HOT setting of the valves. Run the engine to operating temperature, preferably, drive the vehicle as usual. When you stop the engine, pull one valve cover, and do the E-O, I-C method while the engine is still HOT. you are done for the day on that engine. Next operation would be with a dead cold engine. Spin the engine around for a few rotations, then do the E-O, I-C setup, but DON'T CHANGE/READJUST THE SETTINGS, READ THEM, COLD. You now have a cold setting for your hot valves, and can do the E-O, I-C easily, to the cold engine. I call it "Create a Specification", if you ain't got one, find and make your own.

Example for the solid lifter cams, lets say you have to have .024 inch lash, HOT. Set those two valves, with the E-O, I-C method, HOT, to .024. Next morning, you come out, do the engine rotation, then, check the COLD settings, they have magically tightened up to .019, over night. This is your new COLD setting, for your HOT set cam.

On top of what I do for a living, I have, for the last 15 years, been a working engine design engineer for one rider in motorcycle road racing. First, I worked on the 990 cc Honda V5 5 cylinder MotoGP engines. Then, we moved to Yamaha, and to the 800 cc MotoGP engines. Today, Ducati MotoGP, and back to the 1,000 cc engines. In the last 14 years, that rider has been MotoGP World Champion for 10 of those years. Before that, same for 10 years, at Kawasaki, and Yamaha. I also worked on Pro-Stock Dominator carbs at Holley, worked for Shelby on the Cobra's, and for Zora Arkus-Duntov at his GM (Chevy section) Skunk Works. I like diversity, and, a challenge.

Now, anyone got that bare block, cam and two lifters, so they can prove me to be an idiot, and, dead wrong on this valve adjustment stuff? I promise, it'll be painless on your end. Let me know, and I'll talk you through the two tests, and then, you can report the results back here, no other influence from me.

Please understand, I am NOT trying to embarrass, nor flame anyone, COMPLETELY OPPOSITE FROM THAT, just get you guys to do it the one right way. Where I live here, because of my decades of factory experience I have lived through, I get all the "(Fill in the name) just fixed my (fill in the blank), and, now, it don't work" disasters dropped off for resurrection from the murdered, with "Dave, please, please, fix it". Lets not have that happen here, please, I like to hear stuff is working well, not badly.

[54Caddy]

Nice tips here HEI im going to try this on my engine, its rebuilt but i got a loose rocker some where after a 2000 miles. So it would be easier to do with the intake off?

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by gysgtc

Is it a 1/2 turn after no free play? 3/4 turn? 1 turn? thanks

Stock is 1 full turn. Street rodders started doing the 3/4 turn eons ago... most street/strip guys go 1/2 turn... like me.

Gary

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by 54Caddy

Nice tips here HEI im going to try this on my engine, its rebuilt but i got a loose rocker some where after a 2000 miles. So it would be easier to do with the intake off?

A loose rocker after 2,000 miles... along with checkin' for a nut that backed off, or a pressed in stud that started workin' it's way out... I'd be checkin' for a wiped out cam lobe. Keep your fingers crossed.

Gary