Dash wiring question - '69 full cluster

[stexag]

I have searched the forum and am studying the diagrams from the electrical section (kudos boundstaffpress) but I'm unclear on a couple items.

Let me begin by saying I purchased my truck with a panel full of aftermarket gauges and a new restored panel in a box. I'm currently installing the new panel w/ volts, water temp, oil press, tach, spedo, and fuel. Unfortunately I don't have a previous example to follow so I beseech the board for a little help.

1. The volt gauge has 2 poles and the printed circuit runs under them. Am I to hook other wires up to this gauge? It doesn't respond when I turn on lights so I'm not sure if I don't have it hooked up correctly of if there is an issue somewhere else in the harness.

2. Water temp has 4 poles. The printed circuit runs under the two horizontal poles but the vertical ones are empty. Am I supposed to hook sensing unit up here somewhere?

or is the Cluster Connector the ONLY wires hooked to the dash and I need to find where the shorts are somewhere downstream?

Thanks.

[Andy4639]

The factory wiring harness is differant for a non gauge cluster to a full gauge cluster. You will not see much if any movement of the amp meter even when it's a 100% correct it just sits right above the hash mark.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=560609

Swapping A Idiot Light Dash Out To Gauge Dash

The following is for a gauge dash this gives the numbered position of the wires in gauge dash and followed by what it supplies, then number from idiot light dash you move wire from.
1-Black with white stripe 18g(alternator) This runs from the 12g R wire from voltage regulator and should have 1-4amp inline fuse.
2-Tan (Brake warning light) Original position 2
3-Pink (Fuel Gauge) Original Position 7
4-Tan(Fuel Gauge) Original Position 4
5-Empty(not Used)
6-Dark Green (Temp. Gauge) Original position 5
7-Black(ground)Original Position 6
8-Gray(cluster light feed) Original Position 12
9-Medium Blue (Right turn) Original Position 11
10-Lt. Blue (left turn) Original Position 10
11-Lt. Green (high Beam indicator) Original Position 9
12-Black/w brown stripe 18g use wire ran from the junction block near battery mounted to passenger side fender with 1-4amp inline fuse located at junction block end.
Remove the wires from your loom plug and place the colors in the # on plug that corresponds with the color from list above. You will need to replace your idiot light temp. gauge for a temp. sending unit with gauges. The black and white wire feeds from the 12gRed wire off back of alternator and requires the use of 1-4amp inline fuses, this wire you need to make and run. The DARK BLUE wire that was originally in #1 position should be deleted because this was the idiot light for the oil pressure. If you need more info. ask.

[stexag]

AHA. I see.

Not knowing what my truck had I can't assume that it was originally equipped with a full panel. So I will take your instructions and from that compare to see if I need to follow the conversion instructions. I had not thought of that.

Am I correct in assuming then that when the dash is plugged in that the cluster connector are the only wires necessary?

[Andy4639]

Yes if the connector is correct that should be all you need except make sure you put a good ground to the dash some place. It's good measure. Most have a small ground on the far left side of the dash connecting it to the metal dash of the truck.

[stsalvage]

my one question are you going to renew your fuse panel as well.M&H has a wonderful Plug and play dash harness and fuse box for less money then it will be for you to try to be a wire expert.All the plugs are there there is no cutting or dicing wires you will not have any shorts or fires.Its a factory repop harness with all the4 factory wire code I've used about 4 of them and had no problems.They have new ones with out Glass fuses they have the new fuse and the Newest one is that little plug in fuse Go to WWW.truckandcarshop.com there in calif but there parts are really good

[MARKDTN]

You have a Voltmeter or Ammeter?

[68gmsee]

Also, to keep from having to fight electrical gremlins, install new ground straps to connect every major part of that truck back to battery ground. Originally they were designed to use grounds from all the bolts and rivets and maybe a few straps but over the years these contact points are not good anymore and some ground straps are gone.

I bought my ground straps at local parts stores and it fixed amp gauge and brake light problems and headlights are brighter.

This is where I installed new grounds straps:
Cab to engine
Cab to frame
Bed to frame
Radiator support to frame
And for good measure, another ground cable from engine to frame

[stexag]

stsalvage - Thanks for the link, I'm looking that up right now. 2am? You need to get some sleep!

MARKDTN - well, that's a good question isn't it. The aftermarket gauge that was in was clearly marked in volts. The factory gauge I'm putting in is marked Charge/Discharge. Is that an ammeter?

[tex_waco_usmc]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

[B][COLOR="Red"]The factory wiring harness is differant for a non gauge cluster to a full gauge cluster. You will not see much if any movement of the amp meter even when it's a 100% correct it just sits right above the hash mark.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=560609

Swapping A Idiot Light Dash Out To Gauge Dash

The following is for a gauge dash this gives the numbered position of the wires in gauge dash and followed by what it supplies, then number from idiot light dash you move wire from.
1-Black with white stripe 18g(alternator) This runs from the 12g R wire from voltage regulator and should have 1-4amp inline fuse.
2-Tan (Brake warning light) Original position 2
3-Pink (Fuel Gauge) Original Position 7
4-Tan(Fuel Gauge) Original Position 4
5-Empty(not Used)
6-Dark Green (Temp. Gauge) Original position 5
7-Black(ground)Original Position 6
8-Gray(cluster light feed) Original Position 12
9-Medium Blue (Right turn) Original Position 11
10-Lt. Blue (left turn) Original Position 10
11-Lt. Green (high Beam indicator) Original Position 9
12-Black/w brown stripe 18g use wire ran from the junction block near battery mounted to passenger side fender with 1-4amp inline fuse located at junction block end.
Remove the wires from your loom plug and place the colors in the # on plug that corresponds with the color from list above. You will need to replace your idiot light temp. gauge for a temp. sending unit with gauges. The black and white wire feeds from the 12gRed wire off back of alternator and requires the use of 1-4amp inline fuses, this wire you need to make and run. The DARK BLUE wire that was originally in #1 position should be deleted because this was the idiot light for the oil pressure. If you need more info. ask.

I am currently about to do the same thing. The wire that needs to be made for the alternator, does it need to be run through the fuse panel or just straight to the dash??? Any chance anyone has a full on wiring diagram for the underdash harness???

[68gmsee]

Originally Posted by stexag

stsalvage - Thanks for the link, I'm looking that up right now. 2am? You need to get some sleep!

MARKDTN - well, that's a good question isn't it. The aftermarket gauge that was in was clearly marked in volts. The factory gauge I'm putting in is marked Charge/Discharge. Is that an ammeter?

Amp gauges are wired in series to 12vdc. Volt meters are in parallel and read exact voltage with a 12vdc feed and a ground. Charge discharge indicator more than likely is an amp gauge. Before hooking it up, insure you have it wired correctly or you will fry the gauge.

[71K20chevy]

Originally Posted by stexag

Not knowing what my truck had I can't assume that it was originally equipped with a full panel.

Look on the SPID tag inside the glovebox (assuming the glovebox is original too) and if it came with gauges from the factory, it will say something like "amm-temp-oil gauge" or something like that.

[stexag]

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=185856

For tx_waco. Color coded wiring diagrams for the whole truck. I hope that is what you are looking for.

[VetteVet]

As I have explained many time in the electrical forum, The battery gauge is a differential voltmeter that measures the voltage difference between the state of charge of the battery and the output of the alternator. It has nothing to do with whether the alternator will charge or not.

It is wired in a loop between the battery and the alternator on each end of a shunt wire that is shown in the below diagram. There are two 18 gauge wires from the ends of the shunt that connect to the battery gauge AKA, ammeter
via the cluster plug at pins 1 and 12. This is shown in Andy's post above. These two wires are both positive 12 volt and are fused in each wire by a 4 amp fuse.
They are also shown in the diagram and are circled.

Here is the diagram.



A better picture showing the wires top center and bottom center and the fuses.



The wires run through the firewall and go to the cluster plug at 1 and 12 see the posts above.



This is the final connection to the ammeter and the wires from 1 and 12.



Go back and read all the posts by Andy and the other guys and it will become clear I hope.

[Classic Heartbeat]

If I read your questions correctly and you are going to a factory gauge panel...., you do not run any wires to the gauges. It is all done through the printed circuit. The only gauges that do not function through the printed circuit is the Oil Pressure gauge and the Speedometer. The Tach has it's own wire harness witch pluggs into the back of the tach, ignition unfused in the fuse panel and one to coil. WES

[desertnick69]

Originally Posted by stsalvage

my one question are you going to renew your fuse panel as well.M&H has a wonderful Plug and play dash harness and fuse box for less money then it will be for you to try to be a wire expert.All the plugs are there there is no cutting or dicing wires you will not have any shorts or fires.Its a factory repop harness with all the4 factory wire code I've used about 4 of them and had no problems.They have new ones with out Glass fuses they have the new fuse and the Newest one is that little plug in fuse Go to WWW.truckandcarshop.com there in calif but there parts are really good

Thanks stsalvage for the link looks like another good place to get some needed parts. We just lost Grumpy's here in Phoenix.

[stexag]

Thank you all for the help.

I have compared my harness to the drawings posted above and it appears my truck did come with the gauge package originally. All the wires and pinouts match VetteVet's diagram. The SPID shows option '4Z53EE AMMETER - OIL/GAUGE', no mention of TEMP. Would that have been separate?

I have hooked the cluster up and grounded it to the dash. I confirmed ground straps to the engine, frame, and body. Currently the tach circuit works fine. The turn signal indicators work fine and the panel lights glow like champs. My sending uint is out (I hear float bobbing around) but removing the wire makes the needle swing to full so I believe the circuit is complete and a new sending unit will fix that. Oil pressure works, although I'm disappointed the needle doesn't go farther over. My manual gauge says 60 psi but this gauge gives me about 1/4 to 1/3 travel. Oh well.

Currently what does not work are:

Charge / Discharge. I will check the fuses circled in the diagram provided. IF my battery is in good condition how would I make the needle move? Turn on lights with ignition on & engine dead to get a good discharge?

Temp. Needle is buried off to far left. Got engine up to temp and nada. I guess it could be sending unit - would shorting the wire to 12v or ground render a bump on the needle?

Hi Beam indicator. That's getting nitpicky I guess. But no workee yet.

Thanks again for everyone's advice. I know that a lot of this information gets repeated over and over... and I have searched the electrical forum. I gleaned information here and there but I just want to make sure I'm putting it together right.

[Andy4639]

Check all your light bulbs and make sure they arn't burnt out before doing a bunch of unnecessary work.

[VetteVet]

.......

Charge / Discharge. I will check the fuses circled in the diagram provided. IF my battery is in good condition how would I make the needle move? Turn on lights with ignition on & engine dead to get a good discharge?

That would show a discharge right away. The needle don't move much in normal operation, just a little right of center. Check the fuses first or else check for 12 volts on each side of the ammeter terminals.



Temp. Needle is buried off to far left. Got engine up to temp and nada. I guess it could be sending unit - would shorting the wire to 12v or ground render a bump on the needle?

Don't connect it to 12 volts, it is a ground wire and raises the needle as the engine temperature rises. The temperature sender is a variable resistor to ground and lowers the resistance to ground on the dark green wire as the heat climbs. Your thoughts are correct that grounding the green wire should peg the gauge. If it does then the sender is bad and if you get nothing then there may be an open in the wire to the gauge.


Hi Beam indicator. That's getting nitpicky I guess. But no workee yet.

That's a light green wire that ties into the high beam wire off the dimmer switch just as it goes into the inside half of the firewall block. It goes directly from there to the cluster plug so you can check the number 11 pin on the plug for 12 volts with the high beams on and if you get that then most likely the bulb is shot or the bulb socket isn't making contact with the circuit board.

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by VetteVet

.......

Dang your good! I'm glad this board has all these talented people that don't mind sharing their knowledge.

[VetteVet]

Like I told my wife on our wedding night, "I aim to please".

[stexag]

I looked this morining and sure enough - both fuses are missing from the ammeter circuit. I'm going to replace them and then continue down the checklist.

The collective knowledge of this board is amazaing. I feel sorry for those poor souls going it alone out there. When I was younger I spent every waking minute thinking about and every spare minute restoring early 2 cylinder John Deere tractors. The internet was young and printed matl' was scarce. I was WAY too young to have first hand knowledge so I had to glean most of it from neighbors and friends who had operated the poppin' Johns. It was amazing, some men could remember things in minute detail and be spot on with every bit of it -even if they couldn't tell you what they had for breakfast!!

[weever82]

Subscribed

[stexag]

Partial success to report. I replaced the 4A fuses in the ammeter circuit and the gauge moves - but for my money it moves the wrong way. When the starter is bumped it moves to C and then back to center when the engine is running. Same way when I turn on the lights, it will move a tic to the Charge side - seems it should be moving to the discharge side. Like y'all said, it doesn't move a lot.

The Hi Beam indicator I solved too. Wire is hot at dimmer, pin 11 is hot. When I pulled dash back to check the bulb I noticed that the circuit board has de-laminated where it jumps over the tach and sure enough one of the circuits is broken... traced it out to... hi beam indicator.

Haven't tackled Temp yet... but I'm betting circuit is open.

[Richard Walden]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

The factory wiring harness is differant for a non gauge cluster to a full gauge cluster. You will not see much if any movement of the amp meter even when it's a 100% correct it just sits right above the hash mark.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...r /> t=560609

Swapping A Idiot Light Dash Out To Gauge Dash

The following is for a gauge dash this gives the numbered position of the wires in gauge dash and followed by what it supplies, then number from idiot light dash you move wire from.
1-Black with white stripe 18g(alternator) This runs from the 12g R wire from voltage regulator and should have 1-4amp inline fuse.
2-Tan (Brake warning light) Original position 2
3-Pink (Fuel Gauge) Original Position 7
4-Tan(Fuel Gauge) Original Position 4
5-Empty(not Used)
6-Dark Green (Temp. Gauge) Original position 5
7-Black(ground)Original Position 6
8-Gray(cluster light feed) Original Position 12
9-Medium Blue (Right turn) Original Position 11
10-Lt. Blue (left turn) Original Position 10
11-Lt. Green (high Beam indicator) Original Position 9
12-Black/w brown stripe 18g use wire ran from the junction block near battery mounted to passenger side fender with 1-4amp inline fuse located at junction block end.
Remove the wires from your loom plug and place the colors in the # on plug that corresponds with the color from list above. You will need to replace your idiot light temp. gauge for a temp. sending unit with gauges. The black and white wire feeds from the 12gRed wire off back of alternator and requires the use of 1-4amp inline fuses, this wire you need to make and run. The DARK BLUE wire that was originally in #1 position should be deleted because this was the idiot light for the oil pressure. If you need more info. ask.

I have a question I am installing an aftermarket
Wiring harness the #12 wire for cluster with guages I did away with the blocks on fender well can that be hooked to to the ground on battery or where can it go
Posted via Mobile Device

[VetteVet]

No, please don't connect that wire to any ground, it is strictly positive for the ammeter on both the 1 and 12 wires. You have to connect it as close to the battery positive as possible and the 1 wire must go to the main junction where the alternator is connected. The purpose of the ammeter is to measure the output of the alternator compared to the voltage charge on the battery so you're dealing with the positive side all the way.

You can't shortcut the alternator output wire directly to the battery or the ammeter can't see the difference between the alternator and the battery.

Even though this thread similar to your problem it's best to post electrical problems in the electrical section of the forum. We specialize in that stuff and can help you out better.

By the way, welcome to the forums you are going to like it here.