is this a fair price to swap out my engine?

[1972BlueC20]

I'm having my original engine swapped out with a brand new crate engine. My mechanic is going to hook everything back up and tidy up the engine bay and nicely route all the hoses and wires. He's also going to strip down and repaint all the brackets and pulleys black. Also pressure wash all the grime and grease from the engine bay area while the engine is out. He is quoting me $1900 in labor. He's also putting an intake, fuel pump, water pump ect onto the new crate engine so it's not just a ready to go drop in. Also installing a new starter, flywheel, and radiator. I'm having all the parts and engine shipped directly to his shop, and having the truck towed to him as the engine is currently partially torn down.

Is this a fair deal?

I don't have much space or the equipment to do the swap myself. Would just feel better to know it's not too bad of a deal. All in all, I will be out about $5k out the door with parts and labor.

[Sammy]

Seems a bit high for my area. Your area may dictate a higher labor. I would think here a fair price would be closer $800 to $1200 max. Still your going to need oil n filter, antifreeze, gasket set, belts and possibly a hose or two. Could easily add another $100 in parts you haven't mentioned.

[Lattimer]

What is the guy's hourly rate and how many hours is he quoting?


I'd figure 10 hours for the swap, another 3 for cleaning, 2 for doing the brackets and crap, 3 more for the other stuff that's required. 20 hours total is probably fair.

[hugger6933]

The bigger question is are you looking for condemnation or conformation of these prices? There are guys on here that wouldn't pay a dime to "let " another man run his fingers over his baby, why it would be like handing his teenage daughter to a 30 year old guy named Killer[no offense to guys named killer]. Then you have another group who really want to do it but don't have the time or the place to it or do it the right way[that is important too] Then the last group is the guy so busy he just wants to or has to write a check to farther his project if he ever wants it done. Now I'm not gonna say one group is better than the other,I am in the last group most of the time having a huge by large shop with most tools anyone could need but I don't get to use them on MY stuff just everyone else's.
So it comes to this: do YOU think the guy will do what he says when he says for the amount he said he would do it for? If those answers were yes I think he has a motor job to do and you will be riding in you blue 3/4 ton truck very soon. Jim

[LEEVON]

Last time I checked the labor guides on a C10 engine swap it books at about 14 hours. Granted that was an 80's Blazer but still would be similar for any 60's-90's standard V8 GM truck. It's going to take up a bay for a week and half of a technician's week for sure. Add in the cleaning and detail work and it's easily a 20 hour job. I don't know what kind of shop your are working with but in my shop that's about $2000. So yes, for a production shop to do the work that's a fair price. If it was just a guy, at home, with low overhead I could see it being less but really just need to ask yourself if you trust them and will you be happy when it's done to shell out the cash. No amount of quality work will overcome buyer's remorse if you're on the fence.

I just paid a very handsome sum to have a cab fixed, something I couldn't do on my own because of time. After staring at the unfinished project for a couple of years the tall stack of hundreds didn't really bother me...it was done.

On the flip side...if you are a DIY'er and have time, space and ability then invest in the few tools you will need and get the satisfaction of doing it yourself.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

I'm having my original engine swapped out with a brand new crate engine. My mechanic is going to hook everything back up and tidy up the engine bay and nicely route all the hoses and wires. He's also going to strip down and repaint all the brackets and pulleys black. Also pressure wash all the grime and grease from the engine bay area while the engine is out. He is quoting me $1900 in labor. He's also putting an intake, fuel pump, water pump ect onto the new crate engine so it's not just a ready to go drop in. Also installing a new starter, flywheel, and radiator. I'm having all the parts and engine shipped directly to his shop, and having the truck towed to him as the engine is currently partially torn down.

Is this a fair deal?

I don't have much space or the equipment to do the swap myself. Would just feel better to know it's not too bad of a deal. All in all, I will be out about $5k out the door with parts and labor.

Does the $1900 include just the labor? Are the aforementioned parts extra?

Depending on the level of detail, I'm thinking 20-25 hours with the painting and steam cleaning and such. At 100 dollars an hour typical would make this seem like a good deal IF he is a qualified installer warranty wise. If he is a "neighborhood" type mechanic without a business license, and doesn't qualify to enforce the warranty, you need to look elsewhere in your case regardless of how good of work he does.

In YOUR shoes, not having space or equipment, you don't want to pay him to pull it back out if it's defective. YOU would be better off paying a real shop $500 more if the warranty is enforced.

MAKE SURE

[1972BlueC20]

He is quoting 19 hrs for the job, I am supplying all the parts and getting them as cheap as I can online from places like summit and jegs ect.

He said he normally charges about $2,300 for a job like that, but he knows me and has done a lot of work for coworkers of mine so he's giving me a little break.

He runs a classic car restoration shop / general auto repair facility.

I think it's fair, but it is killing me to spend that much when I know I have a few buddies that have offered to help me do the swap that do have engine cranes and have done swaps before. That being said, not that I don't trust them but if something were to get messed up then it would be at my loss. If the shop messes something up, he'll have to make it right before giving my truck back to me. Plus there is the issue of the GM crate engine warranty which I think technically (I know there is debate on this) but I think they prefer a mechanic shop (business) doing the install for the warranty to be 100%

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't getting ripped. I didn't really think I was, but I really value the board members opinions!!

This will put me at around $20K invested in this truck if I go through with this....LOL.....not planning on ever selling.....but if I knew I'd have this much into this thing I'd have just bought a already totally restored c10 short box Cheyenne super LOL.....oh well....I love my c20 and it is pretty nice....will be even better with a brand new shiny engine!!

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

He is quoting 19 hrs for the job, I am supplying all the parts and getting them as cheap as I can online from places like summit and jegs ect.

He said he normally charges about $2,300 for a job like that, but he knows me and has done a lot of work for coworkers of mine so he's giving me a little break.

He runs a classic car restoration shop / general auto repair facility.

I think it's fair, but it is killing me to spend that much when I know I have a few buddies that have offered to help me do the swap that do have engine cranes and have done swaps before. That being said, not that I don't trust them but if something were to get messed up then it would be at my loss. If the shop messes something up, he'll have to make it right before giving my truck back to me. Plus there is the issue of the GM crate engine warranty which I think technically (I know there is debate on this) but I think they prefer a mechanic shop (business) doing the install for the warranty to be 100%

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't getting ripped. I didn't really think I was, but I really value the board members opinions!!

This will put me at around $20K invested in this truck if I go through with this....LOL.....not planning on ever selling.....but if I knew I'd have this much into this thing I'd have just bought a already totally restored c10 short box Cheyenne super LOL.....oh well....I love my c20 and it is pretty nice....will be even better with a brand new shiny engine!!

For what you said he is doing, and if the GM warranty is valid, that is a VERY good deal. Yeah, you and your buddies could probably pull it off but you are right to think the way you are thinking; you are paying for that warranty in the price of the engine and it's worth it. This way, you get the truck back running for the agreed upon price period. Even if they have to do it twice due to a defective engine.

Just do this one thing:

1. Call whoever you are buying the engine from and give them the info on the installer and make SURE you are covered.

Oh, and maybe a new dampener too; I'd get a degreed one like this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...make/chevrolet

Are you getting the 260HP bundle deal or the 290HP longblock?

[1972BlueC20]

yeah good points!!

I will definitely make sure the installer is approved for the warranty to be 100%

I'm debating between the 260hp and 290hp (with and without chrome package)

I know if I buy the cheaper one I could get a cam put in it and intake and save $$$ and end up with more HP but I don't want to crack the engine open....so whatever I get, it will be staying like it's ordered with the exception of maybe having to install the intake if it doesn't come installed already....

I really like the 290 HP with chrome package.....I know I could put that same thing together for a little cheaper, but like I said I don't want to change anything on the engine. So it will probably end up being either the 290HP engine with or without chrome package.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19244450

or

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12499529

My only thing is I'm having trouble with summit on exactly what comes with this engine # 19244450.

On jegs and other sites, it says it comes with the air cleaner, valve covers and timing cover. It even says that on the GM website. Summit is saying it DOES NOT have the air cleaner! But that chrome package is a $200 package that comes with the air cleaner. You can't buy the air cleaner by itself, so it makes no sense to me that the air cleaner would not be included. It's even in the picture!!

Also, summit says the intake is already installed (which I'm hoping) but jegs says that it isn't (says assembly required) LOL.....so summit told me to chat with them tomorrow during business hours so they can contact GM and make sure on these questions....kinda frustrating, you'd think they'd know for sure!

As for the balancer, I already have that exact one in my shopping cart!!

[PanelDeland]

I would ask about the balancer, the new engine should come with one. As to the cost and doing it a bit cheaper, you couldn't when you consider all new parts including block and heads.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by PanelDeland

I would ask about the balancer, the new engine should come with one. As to the cost and doing it a bit cheaper, you couldn't when you consider all new parts including block and heads.

It does not come with the dampener, shameful!

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

yeah good points!!

I will definitely make sure the installer is approved for the warranty to be 100%

I'm debating between the 260hp and 290hp (with and without chrome package)

I know if I buy the cheaper one I could get a cam put in it and intake and save $$$ and end up with more HP but I don't want to crack the engine open....so whatever I get, it will be staying like it's ordered with the exception of maybe having to install the intake if it doesn't come installed already....

I really like the 290 HP with chrome package.....I know I could put that same thing together for a little cheaper, but like I said I don't want to change anything on the engine. So it will probably end up being either the 290HP engine with or without chrome package.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19244450

or

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12499529

My only thing is I'm having trouble with summit on exactly what comes with this engine # 19244450.

On jegs and other sites, it says it comes with the air cleaner, valve covers and timing cover. It even says that on the GM website. Summit is saying it DOES NOT have the air cleaner! But that chrome package is a $200 package that comes with the air cleaner. You can't buy the air cleaner by itself, so it makes no sense to me that the air cleaner would not be included. It's even in the picture!!

Also, summit says the intake is already installed (which I'm hoping) but jegs says that it isn't (says assembly required) LOL.....so summit told me to chat with them tomorrow during business hours so they can contact GM and make sure on these questions....kinda frustrating, you'd think they'd know for sure!

As for the balancer, I already have that exact one in my shopping cart!!

Well I have to agree with a verified installer you don't want to break the engine open. You never know about GM, they will sometimes hire local independent adjusters/inspectors to verify claims.

The chrome package is an UN-installed intake, chrome valve covers, and chrome timing cover for $450. Notice there are two different pictures of that engine, one with a carb and air cleaner and one without. I'm sure it does not come with a carb or air cleaner, and I don't think the intake is installed as it does not come with gaskets.

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

He is quoting 19 hrs for the job, I am supplying all the parts and getting them as cheap as I can online from places like summit and jegs ect.

He said he normally charges about $2,300 for a job like that, but he knows me and has done a lot of work for coworkers of mine so he's giving me a little break.

He runs a classic car restoration shop / general auto repair facility.

I think it's fair, but it is killing me to spend that much when I know I have a few buddies that have offered to help me do the swap that do have engine cranes and have done swaps before. That being said, not that I don't trust them but if something were to get messed up then it would be at my loss. If the shop messes something up, he'll have to make it right before giving my truck back to me. Plus there is the issue of the GM crate engine warranty which I think technically (I know there is debate on this) but I think they prefer a mechanic shop (business) doing the install for the warranty to be 100%

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't getting ripped. I didn't really think I was, but I really value the board members opinions!!

This will put me at around $20K invested in this truck if I go through with this....LOL.....not planning on ever selling.....but if I knew I'd have this much into this thing I'd have just bought a already totally restored c10 short box Cheyenne super LOL.....oh well....I love my c20 and it is pretty nice....will be even better with a brand new shiny engine!!

The price sounds fair to me.


Having swapped engines in my truck twice (don't ask---sad story), Its not all that hard to do. But to keep the warranty, make it someone elses problem if there are any snags, and not have to hope your buddies show up and help-----the $$ is probably well spent. Some of the small hurdles you go through on jobs like that can drive you out of your mind. Like the radiator hose that refuses to stop dripping, or the bolt you dropped and can't find for 3 hours, or cussing at the manifold gaskets because your hands are too big to get them in there and start a bolt......etc.

There are many times I wish I could just hand my truck over and let someone else do the work.

[68shortfleet]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

I'm debating between the 260hp and 290hp (with and without chrome package)

I have the 260hp version in my Landcruiser. Installed it about 14 years ago, runs great still, but only put about 25k on it.

If I had it to do over, I would definitely buy the 290hp version. I just think it would be worth the few extra dollars to have the little extra power and not have to open the motor up to install a bigger cam.

As a side note, I "think" that the 290hp version is a roller cam motor which would be less susceptible to flat cam issues associated with earlier motors including the 260hp crate motor. I also "think" that the 290hp is a one piece rear main seal block. I think that those two things would be worth paying a little more for in the long run, less friction and less leaks.

[MARKDTN]

For a shop that is probably about right. $100/hr.

But for a 2-3 guys and 2 days you could knock it out and pay for the parts. I guess it just depends on what your time an experience is worth.

Before I moved here 10 years ago, I did this kind of thing on the side. I would have done this job over a weekend by myself for less than $1000 labor and thought I was killing it.

If you dress the new engine at night for a week then it is ready. Use new bolts for new intake, flywheel, and water pump. Day 1 morning pull the old engine. Remove balancer and pulleys. Clean and paint parts. Have someone pressure washing the engine compartment and someone stripping the old engine of other parts (exhaust, carb, distributor, special bolts, etc.). After lunch clean up exhaust manifolds and anything else you will reuse. Neaten wiring and paint engine bay as required. By late afternoon you can be putting brackets, reused parts, and painted parts on the new engine. So at end of day 1 you have a fully dressed engine ready to go back into a freshly painted engine compartment. Day 2 put it back in carefully. Add hoses and fire it up.

[geezer#99]

To me that's a fair chunk of money, but at the going rate here ($85/ hr) considering all you're getting done, it'll take at least 20 hours.
But be prepared for the inevitable cost over runs. The unexpected little things he'll need to charge a little more for. It'll only be a few hundred more!!
The one thing you absolutely have to do is be there when he first fires it up for break in.

[Sammy]

I agree with the comments an A.C.E. mechanic, shop would charge about $2,000. $100 an hour for that type work and to be covered by warranty is a decent deal. My quote was based on a qualified mechanic working on the weekend to supplement his working at home with lower overhead. I have had transmissions/ carbs and the like done this way at a considerable discount.

[jeffahart]

Where are your other three quotes. Get three, Huston is a big town and I'm sure you can work the phones and get some real good price comparisons. Do yourself a favor and don't take that expensive favor. Even if you have to pay a couple bucks more. I don't like someone passing off paid work as a favor. Your paying, it ain't no favor. All he is doing is indemnifying himself. How dare you get mad at me for what ever reason as I'm doing you a favor. Work the phones, get prices, see if it really is any favor at all.

[Lee H]

Based on all the circumstances you have described I feel this is a fair and reasonable price for you. Not sure where all the warranty enforcement talk is coming from, you are providing all the parts not the shop. If a water pump, fuel pump or..... fails I'm sure you will get an adjusted bill for the part and labor to R&R. Also don't think he is going to eat any labor cost from an engine failure, even if GM decides to replace a defective engine. Have you read the warranty fine print? Good luck with your swap, your going to love the GM crate.

[no1udknow]

With a shop, and a lift, and the right tools... ( and the lift is optional but does make it eeasier) I think you and a buddy could do the job in 8 hours.

But make you life easy and pull the front clip. IIt's only about 16 bolts, set it aside and dive in.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Lee H

Based on all the circumstances you have described I feel this is a fair and reasonable price for you. Not sure where all the warranty enforcement talk is coming from, you are providing all the parts not the shop. If a water pump, fuel pump or..... fails I'm sure you will get an adjusted bill for the part and labor to R&R. Also don't think he is going to eat any labor cost from an engine failure, even if GM decides to replace a defective engine. Have you read the warranty fine print? Good luck with your swap, your going to love the GM crate.

Not sure where you are coming from with these comments, Lee. Shops do not give any labor breaks at all on failed parts that the customer supplies. Some shops, not all, will give you a break because they provided the part and marked up the price before they put it on your car.

Of course, if a particular shop where your cousin works or a good buddy that is not standard procedure of what to expect as a paying customer.

I take it your are not familiar with "GM Parts Warranty". They DO provide labor costs on failed parts, providing it is an approved installation.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

To me that's a fair chunk of money, but at the going rate here ($85/ hr) considering all you're getting done, it'll take at least 20 hours.
But be prepared for the inevitable cost over runs. The unexpected little things he'll need to charge a little more for. It'll only be a few hundred more!!
The one thing you absolutely have to do is be there when he first fires it up for break in.

Good point, Geezer. So easy to simply by-pass cam break-in procedure and valve spring break-in procedure.

Yeah, always costs over-runs. Always.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 68shortfleet

I have the 260hp version in my Landcruiser. Installed it about 14 years ago, runs great still, but only put about 25k on it.

If I had it to do over, I would definitely buy the 290hp version. I just think it would be worth the few extra dollars to have the little extra power and not have to open the motor up to install a bigger cam.

As a side note, I "think" that the 290hp version is a roller cam motor which would be less susceptible to flat cam issues associated with earlier motors including the 260hp crate motor. I also "think" that the 290hp is a one piece rear main seal block. I think that those two things would be worth paying a little more for in the long run, less friction and less leaks.

The 290HP engine is a flat tappet cam and 2 pc rear seal. It is the exact same engine as the 260HP except for the cam specs.

There used to be a different 350 290HP GM crate engine that was later re-labeled as a 350 300HP. It was a 1 pc rear main seal with centerbolt valve covers, but it ran a flat tappet cam of it's own specs. It is the same exact engine as the current 350-330HP except they put Vortec heads on it and still has flat tappet cam. I have one (350 330HP), it don't leak, and runs like it has more than 330HP.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by LEEVON

Last time I checked the labor guides on a C10 engine swap it books at about 14 hours. Granted that was an 80's Blazer but still would be similar for any 60's-90's standard V8 GM truck. It's going to take up a bay for a week and half of a technician's week for sure. Add in the cleaning and detail work and it's easily a 20 hour job. I don't know what kind of shop your are working with but in my shop that's about $2000. So yes, for a production shop to do the work that's a fair price. If it was just a guy, at home, with low overhead I could see it being less but really just need to ask yourself if you trust them and will you be happy when it's done to shell out the cash. No amount of quality work will overcome buyer's remorse if you're on the fence.

I just paid a very handsome sum to have a cab fixed, something I couldn't do on my own because of time. After staring at the unfinished project for a couple of years the tall stack of hundreds didn't really bother me...it was done.

On the flip side...if you are a DIY'er and have time, space and ability then invest in the few tools you will need and get the satisfaction of doing it yourself.

Nice summary, Leevon. I've had to buy many tools to do projects (not just automotive) and the tool paid for itself the very first time I used it. Yeah, I got a lot of tools LOL.

[1972BlueC20]

Is the stock waterpump long or short, I don't know how to tell....here is a picture below of my original one on the truck now.


Also, is there an advantage of using a 153 or 168 tooth flywheel, one over the other? It seems you can use either, but just have to buy the correct starter for whichever you choose.


Any advice on this is appreciated!