Crate Motor Experience

[miket]

As you all maybe aware, I recently installed a ZZ502 in my 71. Since questions come up about crate motors I thought I would share the experience.

To keep this short, as I could write a few pages....I purchased my completely built ZZ502 from Salle Chevrolet in Oregon. I purchased the deluxe version, which included everything from CARB to pan. It took just a few days to arrive. After carefully rounding all the external pieces needed like radiator, motor mounts, accessory pulleys and accessories, fuel pump...headers.... I took over to my mechanic (he has a bigger shop than I, and more time). After a few days and a shortened driveline, which was expected...,I was ready to pick up my truck.

After a few days of babying it a tad, I started to hear what I though was a fan belt or power steering pump squeak. Really thinking that’s what it was, I didn't pay much attention to it for a few days, however it really annoyed me because it was loud and for pete's sakes it's a new 502!

So I checked the belts, tightened them.....drove it....let a few other people listen to it...I tried belt dressing....finally I took the belts off and started the truck...it still squeaked.

From there I took it to 3 machine shops who use stethoscopes to listen to the squeak…. they all said lifters.

At this point I called Salle and talked with a person (who I will not name here) who walked me through a bunch of things to check that I already tried…. finally he mentioned that they may have to have it back to have them put it on the dyno…..on my nickle. This prompted a discussion with the owner days later who suggested I contact a mechanic he trusted close to me….which I did. The mechanic came out and gave me a laundry list of things to do before they would consider fixing the noise….as well I was told GM only warranty’s parts on these motors. Most of the items on the list had little to do with the noise I knew was coming from both cylinder heads of my brand new 502.

After several weeks and another thousand bucks I had it all finished….back to the mechanic I went….after staying on him like a bull dog, taking time off work to get my truck to him, he finally tore into it.

He found two things…the windage tray under the intake manifold might have been rubbing the pushrod and found slight scoring in the pushrod cups of two rocker arms. The tray was removed...rocker arms replaced. My bill was $90.

This is here for information purposes only…Sallee took care of me on this when GM basically wouldn’t. I did have to stay after them to get it done. To keep this from happening again, I would have Sallee break in my motor on their Dyno before they ship it. Especially if it’s a parts only warranty. This spanned April 03 until two days ago.

[bigjimzlll]

Mike..sorry for all of your troubles.. Those crate engines sure look like a great idea..until you here of these nagging problems that occur..If I were to go with a crate(im not) it would have to be a local deal

[DanoDMano]

Congrats Mike,

Hope thats it with the problems. Its got to be a nightmare when you get psyched to get something like a 502 going in your truck, and run into problems?? Especially when it comes to the possible shipment of a heavy engine!!

Glad its taken care of, and I hope to hear it roar someday soon!!

[miket]

Yes it's quiet now ( as in no squeak) and it put a smile on my face driving it home....

[Tuck]

I had a friend who purchased a Mopar hemi for 13K only to start it up and have a rod knock. I was missing a rod bearing??

[landon4421]

don't feel bad I put a crate 350 in my 72 before the tear down. Anyway my buddy rob works for greenwood chevy here in hollister, he got me a great deal on a new block. So I got the block we took it home and put everything togeather. I was driving the truck 2 days later when it just started to run all crappy and then it died. Got towed home took the block out and took it to greenwood and said take it apart and see what is wrong. It lost two pistons ! the push rods were all tore up. It took them 2 days to get me a new motor. I did not pay anything for it! :p Now i have a brand new motor in the garage and no truck to put it in !

[wxman1]

I've never purchased a crate motor before. I've bought
2 engines from junkyards. I did NOT know that the warranty from
GM was for parts only. What's with THAT! They assemble the
motor, completely in your case, since you got the deluxe version and I assume that these are GM original parts (which are not inexpensive) and it is SUPPOSED to be a working engine...ready to go in a vehicle.

Do they NOT do a break-in period on these engines? If nothing
else...just to make sure it doesn't have any problems. According
to GM Parts Direct this engine sells for over $6000. IMHO when
you pay that much money they should do

1) a 24 hour break-in period to insure everything is OK.

2) if there is a problem, then the customer should be able
to deliver the vehicle and engine to the seller and let THEM
run all the checks and such.

It sems to me that when to purchase an engine like this
(especially the deluxe version) you are purchasing an engine
that is ready to run...essentially all you have to do is add oil
and filter.

Just my .02

Jim
Mt Juliet

[miket]

WXMAN!:

Yup I agree but on performance crates it's parts only and thats why I say have the motor dynoed before you take delivery.....at least everyone knows now!

[Bluegoose972]

I was looking for a machine shop to complete some work on a big block that I'm prepping for my blazer. After visiting several in the Lubbock, TX area, I stumbled across the shop that completes all the motor upgrades and modifications for Scoggin Dickey before they are sent to the purchaser. They had a line of six new 502 motors sitting there, getting prepped for various uses...with most getting fuel injection systems.

At the end of this line of engines was a warranty engine that had been replaced by Scoggin Dickey. The shop owner explained to me that when an engine appears bad, Scoggin Dickey just replaces the engine with a new unit, but the purchaser is responsible for removal of the engine and reinstallation. Sorta like when you buy a TV...Your responsible for hauling it home and if it doesn't work, you take it back and get a new one. The bad part is that the purchaser can absorb alot of expense in addition to the down time of not having their vehicle running. This shop said that they get about one 502 engine every two months returned with some type of defect or problem. Seems like a pretty high turn-over of problem engines if you ask me.

But even with this information, I think I'm still leaning toward selling my 454 junkyard engine and picking me up a nice, shiny, 450 hp 502 to slap in the old blazer. I will surely get myself in trouble with that beast!

[miket]

I am happy with Sallee. They took care of me and if I were to do it again I would buy the 572 htrough them and have them dyno the motor....this way it's broken in, tuned and ready to go.....plus you will have documentation of HP/torque figures....not to mention some security knowing you shouldn't have any problems.

Crate motors are production line built......not race engine built. There is a difference. Just be aware.

They are good motors!

[Bluegoose972]

MikeT,
How did you deal with the proximity of the distributor to the firewall? I getting ready to install a big block in my blazer, in addition to changing from a 350 to a 400 transmission. This combo is going to be a little over 3" longer, so something is going to have to move. Right now, I'm considering shifting the engine ahead by 2" and shifting the transfer case back by an inch+ to make it work. I've heard this is a good solution to the firewall problem....Just curious on how you dealt with it.

Thanks,
Rick

[Bluegoose972]

And one more question!

What did you use for motor mounts?

Thanks again!

[jef5150]

[gm quote]Should any part prove to be defective, that part and "only that part" may be warranted at the discretion of General Motors.The buyer assumes full responsibility for the entire cost of repair, service, damage and/or loss to property.[end quote]......jeff,,,,,

[miket]

Bluegoose, I used original big block truck motor mounts...these trucks came with big blocks from the factory and T400's so it was just a matter of moving the motor and shortening the driveline...I can't recall if the transmission crossmember got moved or not....On a 4X4 there might be more to do....

jef5150...that about sums it up.

[miket]

And the saga continues....


My squeak is back....as of this morning.....

I was attempting to adjust the high speed idle on the choke....which I got done, and when it came off high idle.....bam! there was the squeak.....I am so pissed!

[Huck]

I would insist on a new engine---one that was assemblied correctly as you have done more then your part in trying to deal with THEIR manufacturing failures. Before you spend any more $$ on this, find a lawyer friend who can write a letter on your behalf. Chevy usually replaces these crate motors rather then repairing them. Good luck

[cheyenne10]

I have been chasing similar sound on goodwrench 350. It has less than 3000 miles on it but time warranty has run out. I blamed the alternator, PS pump (repalced them) and its still there It showed up about 1000 miles ago. It occurs after running it for 1 hr on highway and the it gets real loud, sounds just like alternator belt. I stop for 10 minutes and let cool down and it goes away only to occur 20 minutes later, If I keep my foot out of it and 50 mph or below its quiet. Haven't run it much lately, next suspicion is fan clutch or old pullies. Does anyone know if I can still get stock new pulleys?

[miket]

While it's making the noise, pull the fan belts off or try belt dressing.....those will point in the direction it may be coming from.

[miket]

Update...

My truck is back at the shop being diagnosed....been there a week....haven't heard much....though if they can't find the source of the noise....the motor will have to come out (at my expense) and be sent back to the dealer for a tear down and dyno. I talked with an attorney who said there isn't much I can do. Unfortunately for the second time, I probably WON'T have it at our first club meet.

[jhow66]

Hey Miket just read your post --there was "502" views when I clicked on--might be a good sign.

[miket]

Update 11/14/03:

They haven't found the cause of the noise.....they are attempting to eliminate every possible cause outside the actual block. It seems they may end up sending me a new engine....so due diligence is being taken.

The next step involves replacing the distributor and carb ( not sure what effect this will have) and see if the noise goes away.

[68racer]

I just got a call today that my 502/502 (unassembled deluxe kit) is at the shippers. Should be with me mid February, 6000 miles by surface. Damn I hope it don't squeak as I think I'll be on my own on that one.

[miket]

If it is unassembled then you are a little better off. You will have the chance to check everything( hopefully) when you assemble it.

[Bluegoose972]

My local shop here in Lubbock is the designated machine shop for Scoggin-Dickey Chevrolet. S-D is a large supplier of motors around the country and advertises in most of the hot rod magazines.

From what I'm hearing from this shop, before you assemble your engine, have machine work done to the block and have everything balanced. There are always going to be higher tolerances in a mass produced product and a machine shop can easily tighten everything up to minimize future problems. Sure it adds about $1000 onto the engine price, but your most likely putting 6-8 times that amount into your engine anyways....so do it right the first time.

I was pro-crate engines until I saw the difficulty that MikeT is having and stories I've heard from the shop. I still would purchase the parts, but I would go for the unassembled version and then focus on making sure that everything was right when it went into the block.

Just my $0.02.

[68racer]

The unassembled comes as a short block plus all parts to finish. I do have a top race shop nearby, but disassembling a new engine does not appeal. I've got three months to think about it!