Shouldn't a patch panel be better than this?

[zac]

'70 Suburban, patch that goes between the back of the third door to the front of the rear wheel well. I know they are never perfect, and I know the deal on who makes these and where. The seam pictured is right at the top of the wheel opening, so any blending efforts will be noticeable. The flat area on the patch is a full 3/16" short of the original. This isn't going to be a show truck, but I put a lot of effort into this so far and was expecting better. Any point in returning this and getting another, or is this just going to be par for the course?

[zac]

Oops...sideways

[72c20customcamper]

Par for the course. I had to dissect the cab corners was about 2 inches to long .

[StingRay]

It depends on the panel manufacturer. Ive had rockers better than NOS and near perfect cab corners. The floor sections I've used have been pretty good and cab supports hit and miss. Suburban stuff I think is a small market and getting anything more than a flat sheet is probably as good as it gets.

[SkidmoreGarage]

In a word, yes.

Blame GM for licensing poor quality reproductions to start with. People have just gotten used to it for classic American sheet metal. It doesn't have to be this way, but people just buy whatever is cheapest. If I made quality products, the last thing I'd want to invest in, or bring to market, is a product in a segment that is a race to the bottom.

[ChevyRacefan]

Originally Posted by SkidmoreGarage

In a word, yes.

Blame GM for licensing poor quality reproductions to start with. People have just gotten used to it for classic American sheet metal. It doesn't have to be this way, but people just buy whatever is cheapest. If I made quality products, the last thing I'd want to invest in, or bring to market, is a product in a segment that is a race to the bottom.

Problem is, The hobby, and those in it. They buy on price point. If a vendor for example, billys bowtie parts.
List 2 driver side cab corners
1 of 25.95
and the other for
52.99
The 52.99 will sit on the shelf while the 25.95 part sells. So the supplier of the 52.99 part has to get to the price point of that 25.95 part. because the buyers in the hobby buy on price not if the part fits and correctly made.
So many vendors don't even bother stocking the higher cost part knowing it is inventory that just collect dust.
So when a panel is getting repopped, they know they have to bring it to market at a price point or don't bother. The guy with a truck rather buy a door shell for 349.99 that need 490.00 in body work to make fit correctly.Shop rates are not cheap. Than pay for a 519.99 door shell that bolt on, and Prime, and block sand. So we get crap.

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by ChevyRacefan

Problem is, The hobby, and those in it. They buy on price point. If a vendor for example, billys bowtie parts.
List 2 driver side cab corners
1 of 25.95
and the other for
52.99
The 52.99 will sit on the shelf while the 25.95 part sells. So the supplier of the 52.99 part has to get to the price point of that 25.95 part. because the buyers in the hobby buy on price not if the part fits and correctly made.
So many vendors don't even bother stocking the higher cost part knowing it is inventory that just collect dust.
So when a panel is getting repopped, they know they have to bring it to market at a price point or don't bother. The guy with a truck rather buy a door shell for 349.99 that need 490.00 in body work to make fit correctly.Shop rates are not cheap. Than pay for a 519.99 door shell that bolt on, and Prime, and block sand. So we get crap.

The thing is, it doesn't cost any more to make it right than it does to make it wrong....

LockDoc

[HO455]

Since I have yet to replace that piece I can't speak for sure, but you might try reposting in the Suburban section. Maybe you just got a poor stamping. Or someone may be able to point to a better manufacturer. Someone may know a work around.

[sakustoms]

I have aftermarket panels for my 69 and the DS inner/outer rockers fit better and have better shape that the PS side ones do. Go figure.

Both cab corners and all floor panels and braces seem good so far.

[zac]

I try to be very careful about where I buy parts from, but as was pointed out, burb stuff is very limited. And most of these places drop ship, so it’s not like they can head back to the warehouse with a tape measure and check for me. I guess worst case i can split that area to widen it out to match and then fill it, tapering it off when it’s going down in front of the tire and won’t be noticeable.

The aggravating part is it took me 5 years to find somebody willing to cut a B pillar off a donor truck and ship it to me. Seven years to find a rust free, relatively straight 3rd door. And as a total amateur I have spent countless hours sitting on an upside down bucket, staring at these burb specific areas figuring out what to do. And I’m pretty much there, and I’m happy with it. Fitting up one of the few available patches was supposed to be the easy part.

[HO455]

The other side of the coin with this is that there is no guarantee that GM's panels were identical from year to year or that the stamp mold wasn't broken at some point and after repair it was slightly different.
Does anyone know if all Suburban panels were stamped at one factory and then shipped to the various assembly plants or did each plant have its own sheet metal plant?
It's possible that the patch panel is a perfect match to the sample provided to the mold maker.
Compared to the repop fender on my Burban your piece is a dead on match.

[Boog]

One saving grace with repops is at least you get all new metal even if they aren't perfectly shaped. Getting rid of rust is BIG.

[Sparky dave]

After a hard day in the shop bet you'd like to slap the company director of those pannels in the face with a wet fish! Now's prob not a good time because the pannels should be better but what about a couple of pie cuts of slits with the death wheel and lineit through. hope tomorrow is a better day pal

[ChevyRacefan]

Originally Posted by LockDoc

The thing is, it doesn't cost any more to make it right than it does to make it wrong....

LockDoc

Sorry, can't agree, and I hazard a guess that every person that ever worked in an R&D dept. Will have a bone to pick about your thinking.

[factorystock]

Originally Posted by HO455

The other side of the coin with this is that there is no guarantee that GM's panels were identical from year to year

Very good point! Stamping press dies get changed out sooner or later.

[MAC71Cheyenne]

Just my two cents...
Lower price for something that takes hours of work is not a bargain. I have no problem paying a bit more for a quality item, if I can find it. The hassles are just not worth it unless there is no other option. If we go for the good stuff it's the junk that will not sell and manufacture/ suppliers will see that.
If it isn't right what's the use in "fixing" it?

[Myself]

Originally Posted by ChevyRacefan

Sorry, can't agree, and I hazard a guess that every person that ever worked in an R&D dept. Will have a bone to pick about your thinking.

I have to agree with Doc......IF you're starting from scratch. The real problem is most of these places won't even have a real R&D dept ! They're just copy catters. And if you copy a cheap part that you bought so you can make the same offering....then yours is likely to be a little worse......and so on.....and so on.

[NGN]

Any product with a 100% guarantee fit would be great followed with a 100% money back guarantee,and not talking about the minor scratches and minor dents that may occur during shipping, I'm talking not the correct fit as shown in the pictures above.
NGN
NICK

[54blackhornet]

Did all you fellas forget it’s 2021 , not 1967 or 1977 or even 1987. Just go ask anyone younger then 55/60 to read a tape measure. You need properly educated employees to produce quality items. How did that last conversation with the kid at your local parts house go ? The dumbing down of America has been going on for decades and the price we will pay will be astronomical. I won’t even comment on the crap from China.

[72c20customcamper]

Originally Posted by 54blackhornet

Did all you fellas forget it’s 2021 , not 1967 or 1977 or even 1987. Just go ask anyone younger then 55/60 to read a tape measure. You need properly educated employees to produce quality items. How did that last conversation with the kid at your local parts house go ? The dumbing down of America has been going on for decades and the price we will pay will be astronomical. I won’t even comment on the crap from China.

America has nothing to do with it for the most part I have only seen a few American made body parts and they fit better than the Chinese- Taiwan stuff

[ChevyRacefan]

Originally Posted by Myself

I have to agree with Doc......IF you're starting from scratch. The real problem is most of these places won't even have a real R&D dept ! They're just copy catters. And if you copy a cheap part that you bought so you can make the same offering....then yours is likely to be a little worse......and so on.....and so on.

YES, but it also depends on what they copied.
EVEN facotry parts don't always fit correctly. and if they copied a badly stamped n.o.s. part. you get a bad fitting part.
No one is cutting up a perfect cab to get a cab corner off a cab to copy.
Looking at the list price of cab corners, outer rockers, inner rockers.
I would not expect parts at that price to fit without work.
Price a cab corner for a newer truck oem part, then the aftermarket 67-72 cab corner.
How many old truck owners would buy a cab corner if it was 136.89.
Outer rocker 214.56 etc.
What did the company that MADE the aftermarket cab corner that sells for 24.67 make after shipping it across the world ,and the retailers cut of the pie?
Maybe a few bucks. after they pay for the metal, the tooling, the r&d or lack of it, the priming, boxing, packaging, shipping it, ect.
The company that MADE that ill fitting part. isn't making much, we are kinda lucky they even bother, If it was not for sheer volume of units moved, it never be worth ,their time.

[j_cst_10]

Originally Posted by 54blackhornet

Did all you fellas forget it’s 2021 , not 1967 or 1977 or even 1987. Just go ask anyone younger then 55/60 to read a tape measure. You need properly educated employees to produce quality items. How did that last conversation with the kid at your local parts house go ? The dumbing down of America has been going on for decades and the price we will pay will be astronomical. I won’t even comment on the crap from China.

I work in manufacturing as a high level process engineer. There are plenty of 55/60 year olds that can't read a tape measure, or a print, or can do nothing but press cycle start.

Has nothing to do with age, it depends on the company and the person. No shortage of under skilled young people, no shortage of under skilled old people.

I work in this environment every day. I am surprised by peoples perception of manufacturing in the USA versus the reality. And if you're that disgruntled blame your kids that you raised. Or blame their kids they raised.

[BigBird05]

ChevyRaceFan, You are wrong. Just look at the price people are willing to pay for NOS parts. The prices make my head swim.

[May70]

Fitment is about average. Wouldn't be worried about it just fix it the way that makes you happy and keep moving. There is no aftermarket panel mass produced that doesn't take modification to be done right.

[ChevyRacefan]

Originally Posted by BigBird05

ChevyRaceFan, You are wrong. Just look at the price people are willing to pay for NOS parts. The prices make my head swim.

Lets talk about "N.O.S." parts. They don't fit either. Nothing like paying through the nose for a part you think will fit as it was stamped by the original supplier. but no. Much of the n.o.s. was Assembly line rejected part.
Meaning the part failed Q/C at the factory, but boxed and sold as a service replacement part.
I have seen "N.O.S." BODY PARTS that don't fit, line up, and need hours of work to make fit correctly, and character lines, body lines line up.
On vehicles that were never hit, but panel is being replaced from rust.
Again, Go price a rear quarter for a o.e.m. new g.m. car or a bed side for a new truck, then look at what the reproduction parts for the 40's-87 cars and trucks Cost.
YOU would not be in this classic vehicle hobby if the parts producers made parts that needed almost zero work to install, and charged accordingly .
Only those that have money to burn would own classic vehicles. As the cost would be A lot higher to restore and keep on the road.
I can buy a 1969 c-10 drivers door shell for 399.99 , A 2019 Camaro door shell is 1114.65 . What would happen if the reproduction body producers, decided to make a o.e.m. assembly line quality body parts? and charged the same 1114.99 for a drivers side door shell for a 1969 c-10?
1) No one would buy them
2) You would repair the old dented and rust filled old door, and pay the body shop the shop rate of 125.00 an hour to fab up a patch, weld it in, body work it, prime it, sand it, block it, And have 800.00+ into a not even in paint old door.
I know why reproduction parts are not going to fit. We as a whole in the old vehicle hobby would never buy parts that fit as the cost of the part would be a lot higher than they currently are. They would be inline with what that new Camaro door cost.
The vendors can't even move the repopped parts without offering sales all the time, or free shipping, or a 15-20% off coupon.