58 Apache Bagged Cummins

[whitedog76]

JoeDoh, I can't say if the 34" is accurate. Just info from other forums. I do do know that 40" to the front of the fan seems to be the general consensus.
Looking at the bottom pic, appears to be a fan shroud.

For what it's worth. Removing the fan and clutch on my 4200, gave me an extra 4" to work with.

[joedoh]

thanks mongo, those are the specs I remembered. usually length is given without the accessories, its the overall block length with the water pump on it. 34 seemed unlikely to me because its got 6 4" pistons with at least an inch between them and at the ends, so 34" might be a block/head measurement but couldnt possibly be an overall.

Originally Posted by whitedog76

J
Looking at the bottom pic, appears to be a fan shroud.

yes, that one kept the stock fan. but the firewall recess is over 12", too. 4" for the fan wouldnt have saved that firewall.



thanks for your service IggyPop! and dont be discouraged by our flapping, if you still wanted the cummins you can do it! bird in the hand and all. or keep the dodge to tow the 58.

[RADustin]

Originally Posted by joedoh

thanks mongo, those are the specs I remembered. usually length is given without the accessories, its the overall block length with the water pump on it. 34 seemed unlikely to me because its got 6 4" pistons with at least an inch between them and at the ends, so 34" might be a block/head measurement but couldnt possibly be an overall.

no offense, but you speak straight from your a$$.

Some facts-

bore spacing is 4.75". So about 3/4" meat between cylinders.

40" length would include the commercial SAE adapter to the front space of the water pump. 1005mm OAL. Back of block to front of water pump is 34.25"(870.9mm). So the engine is 34.25" plus fan and such.

drawing snip attached.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by RADustin

no offense, but you speak straight from your a$$.


bore spacing is 4.75". So about 3/4" meat between cylinders.

I was off by a 1/4 inch in bore spacing and speak from my a$$? you had to look up what I already knew.

when whitedog said 34" he was including the accessories, I said it wasnt possible. you looked it up as 34.25 without any accessories. thats how everyone runs these engines, right?

so if you and whitedog were buidling the truck it would have an unmodified firewall and no accessories. sounds practical. all to prove me wrong.

[RADustin]

Originally Posted by joedoh

so 34" might be a block/head measurement but couldnt possibly be an overall.

It's in plain text above. The engine is not 40" long.

the OAL of the cummins is 34.25". The alt sits next to the block, the furest protrusion is the water pump.

the 40" includes an adapter that is not used for the dodge based cummins.

so yes, you speak with no real experience. I understand you have read a few forum posts and this makes you an expert. But unfortunately, you don't actually know.

whitedog76 actually had the correct number, yet you talked him away from it. He even posted pictures showing his confusion, and you still talked him down from his belief.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by RADustin

It's in plain text above. The engine is not 40" long.

the OAL of the cummins is 34.25". The alt sits next to the block, the furest protrusion is the water pump.

the 40" includes an adapter that is not used for the dodge based cummins.

so yes, you speak with no real experience. I understand you have read a few forum posts and this makes you an expert. But unfortunately, you don't actually know.

whitedog76 actually had the correct number, yet you talked him away from it. He even posted pictures showing his confusion, and you still talked him down from his belief.

I actually said 34" sounded like a block/head measurement, which it is. 40" overall sounded like the measurement I took with my own eyes when I measured a 12v cummins for a swap.

so go ahead and plan for 34" length to install one. shouldnt need any of my input to make it work, you have the technical drawing you googled for! building with pictures is real building!

edit: your technical drawing shows 882mm for the block and 123mm for the accessories. thats 39.6" overall, PLUS FAN.

[RADustin]

Originally Posted by joedoh

I actually said 34" sounded like a block/head measurement, which it is. 40" overall sounded like the measurement I took with my own eyes when I measured a 12v cummins for a swap.

so go ahead and plan for 34" length to install one. shouldnt need any of my input to make it work, you have the technical drawing you googled for! building with pictures is real building!

edit: your technical drawing shows 882mm for the block and 123mm for the accessories. thats 39.6" overall, PLUS FAN.

882.1-134.1+123=871mm(34.29in). but who's counting.

at any point you can admit to spreading false information and look less like a jackass.

If you don't think you can build from drawings, don't go look at my build thread of my '76. It'll scare you how accurate they are.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by RADustin

8
at any point you can admit to spreading false information and look less like a jackass.

funny, I was going to say the same thing to you! apparently part of the engine doesnt exist either in real life or on the drawing.




you have doubled down, now you dont need accessories OR a starter. your cummins swap will be under two feet long in no time.

I looked at your build thread, nice work! I am an engineer by trade too. if I read a drawing like you do (subtracting a part that didnt agree with) I wouldnt have a job very long though.

[RADustin]

Originally Posted by RADustin

40" length would include the commercial SAE adapter to the front space of the water pump. 1005mm OAL.

Originally Posted by joedoh

apparently part of the engine doesnt exist either in real life or on the drawing.

as mentioned, that is the SAE adapter. The dodge conversion parts to use the cummins are very proprietary. Any drawings found on 'google' will be of the cummins in its natural environment; some kind of industrial use. Industry has agreed to specific bellhousing bolt patterns, all driven by SAE.

The dodge transmissions have the direct to cummins patten in the bellhousing, not needing the adapter. Fritolay ordered a bunch of cummins 4bt powered bread trucks which had a GM turbo400 adapter, much thinner than the SAE. This has since been knocked off and recreated for other transmissions as well. Evenso, the dodge unit can be built to be the strongest.

I'm putting together another comparison of cummins, gen IV 5.3, LBZ duramax, and the mighty 235 as time allows. I'll post some screenshots shortly.