Help - 1963 Engine ID - 230 or 292 ??

[decodan]

Hello,
I just bought a 1963 C-20 in another state. I am trying to have some work done before flying out to get it and need help telling them what engine it has. Can anyone tell me how to ID the engine between a 230 and 292 by looking or where to find numbers to id it by? Also, will 235/85R16 tires fit the '63 c-20. Thanks for the help. Dan

[Fred T]

Easiest way is the motor mounts. The 230 has side mounts directly accross from each other. The 292 passenger side mount is forward. You can also check the casting numbers, passenger side on the lower block just aft of center. These are raised letters. Go to www.inliners.org for a listing.

[64fleetside]

Also the side covers are about 4" tall on 230-250 & 292 has covers about 6" tall. Not sure on tires, many have had the wheels changed over the years. Brian

[Lgriffin]

I've run a set 92 rims with 265/75R6 on my 63 C20.
Larry

[65ChevyC20]

I'm running 285X75X16 on my truck. No problems with fit, I wanted to go with the biggest tire possible to reduce highway RPM's. It still has ppplenty of poop off the line though!!

[decodan]

Hey,
Thanks for all the help. Looks like everything is going to be OK. I got some wheels off eBay for $85 for 4 and had them shipped to where the truck is. They tried one tire and it seems to be OK on front and back. The number they gave me off the engine did not match anything but after a little checking I figured they missed one number. I was given the number 8789404 but think it should have been 3789404 which would make it a 1963, 292. I am sure happy about that. The truck is in excellent condition with only the normal minor rust on both front lower fenders and some hood rust. I'll post a few pictures when we get back with it around Thanksgiving. Wish us luck driving back across country. Thanks again, Dan

[Fred T]

It all sounds good. How far is it from you?

[decodan]

Hey,
Depending on how you look at it. It is either a short vacation or a long 2400 miles. We are committed since we bought one way airline tickets. Dan

[decodan]

OK, Here is the account of the purchase and the trip with pictures if you have the time. It is a long post. Thanks, Dan

1963 C-20
Chevrolet Pickup w/10' El Dorado

Located this truck on-line and made a phone call. I was sent a few pictures and made the decision to buy the truck. I was told that the original owners bought the truck in 1964 and only used it for camping. The husband had passed away and the wife no longer wanted to look at the truck. It had almost 41,000 miles on it and had never been wrecked. I was told it had the normal rusted hood and front fenders.

Click here for a view of many pictures of the truck and camper and the text of our return trip.

Our Trip

Darrell (the guy we were dealing with) was from the old school just like we are. We had given our word we would buy the truck as long as it was not misrepresented and he agreed to hold it until we got there. Of course he knew we already had a few hundred dollars invested in plane tickets. We bought one way tickets so we were committed. This was about the end of October when we saw the pictures and made the decision and it would be about a month until we could get to Portland to pick it up.
We had discussed the known problems with the truck and he agreed to take it to Sears for a few items that were needed. The truck had the original split-rims and a set of old 7.50x16 nylon tires on it. I bought a set of used steel 16" rims on eBay and had them shipped to him so new 235/85r16- 10 ply tires could be put on the truck. I knew no one was going to work on the old split rims. While in Sears I had all the fluids changed and the trans and rear end checked. I was told the wheel cylinders were leaking since the truck had been sitting for quite some time so those were also replaced. It had been about 5 or 6 years since they had been camping in the truck but Darrell (the guy selling it for her) had been starting it every month and letting it warm up.

Thursday, November 17th - We left Memphis for our trip to Portland. Even the start was an adventure. We bought tickets on Southwest Airlines out of Little Rock, AR since we would save about $200 a ticket. We rented a car in Memphis at 7am and drove to Little Rock airport for our flight out at about 1:30pm. We arrived in Portland at about 7pm with a short lay-over in Las Vegas.

Friday, November 18th - We showed up bright and early to pick up the Pickup and take care of the paper work. All that was finished in about an hour. The truck started right up and purred like a kitten. The first stop was at a gas station where I put a bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil in each gas tank and then filled up. Well 120 dollars later all three tanks were topped off. Yes the truck had the factory saddle tanks. The next order of business was to stock up for the trip back to Memphis. We needed to get food and supplies. I had sent a tool box and other items that would have been hard to get on the plane like my pocket knife and other protection for the trip back. While at Home Depot we bought a new propane tank but were unable to get it filled. I figured I could get that done along the way.

Saturday, November 19th - We had been watching the weather for a few days and had made the decision to take the northern route back home. This would take us through Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and finally Tennessee. The weather report was looking good since there were no fronts coming and the roads were clear. It was going to be clear and cold at night and mild during the day. Sounded GREAT>>>

We left Portland and headed up the Columbia River Gorge and about 10 miles into the trip we hit a brick wall. The winds coming down the gorge were about 60 mph and with the camper on the truck it felt like I was going to get blown over. I was able to make about 45 to 50 mph but believe me my neck was so tight and of course I had white knuckles from gripping the steering wheel so hard. Remember this was the first time I had really driven this truck let alone with a 10' El Dorado Slide-in camper on the back. Well after about 3 or 4 hours we made it out of the gorge only to be greeted by a flashing warning sign - Danger Freezing Fog. When they say fog they mean FOG. We were only able to go about 15mph up and down the mountain passes until about 2 hours later we were over the mountain and the sky was clear and the day beautiful. We drove until we made it to Ontario, OR and found a Wal-Mart. It was a 24 hour store so we parked in the parking lot and proceeded to make a night of it. OH, hell I forgot to fill the propane tank. So we went into Wal-Mart and bought a little Coleman heater for a tent and thought that would keep us OK for the night. Well let me tell you, when it is 20 something out side those little heaters will keep it above freezing but not much, we could still see our breath inside the camper. The first day was not too good, we only covered about 300 miles and our plan to get home in four days looked bleak.

Sunday, November 20th - We left Ontario, OR and crossed the Snake River into Idaho and hoped to make it to Colorado by night. Well we made it through Idaho and Utah with no problems and we were able to drive about 60 to 65mph. Then while in Rock Springs, WY I remembered we needed to get propane before the night. I had already tried to get it at a couple of stops but no one was able to fill the tank for one reason or another. We stopped at an Ace Hardware store in Rock Springs and while getting the propane tank filled I noticed a drip coming from under the engine compartment. I thought OH Hell I got a radiator leak. I put my finger in the puddle and then smelled it and then really said OH HELL it is gas. I opened the hood and looked and noticed gas dripping from the fuel pump. I asked if there was a parts store open and was told there was an Auto Zone back a mile or so. It was now about 5:30pm and I had no idea how long it would be open if it was at all. Got to the Auto Zone and they said if the fuel pump had 6 bolts I was in luck but if it had 10 I would have to have it ordered. LUCKY ME. Well they were open until 8pm so I bought the fuel pump and changed it on the parking lot. I sort of expected a few problems like this since the truck had been sitting for some time. This cut into our driving time and we only made it to almost Cheyenne, WY. We stopped at a Pilot Truck Stop and parked for the night. We splurged and ate dinner and breakfast in the truck stop, figured that was payment for parking in their lot. Good thing we finally got the propane for the camper's heater. It was way COLD that night but we were able to keep it in the low 60s inside the camper. Another day of not getting where we wanted to and the trip looking longer and longer. We had planned to be home on Tuesday.

Monday, November 21st - Left bright and early after a big breakfast. Made pretty good time this day. Had plenty of pretty country and a few high mountain passes to negotiate. The highest pass was about 8500 feet. On the way up the old 292 six cylinder chugged along fine passing a Dodge dually towing a small trailer and a Ford F250 with a camper. Of course they passed me back up when we were on the flats again. We made pretty good time this day and started looking for a KOA camp Ground so we could take a shower this night, this was by the way our 3rd day without bathing.;>) We pulled into a KOA in Hays, Kansas at about 8pm and could not find anyone there. There was a signup sheet and a way to pay BUT the showers were LOCKED. I was not paying to camp and not be able to shower. So we decided to get a motel room where they leave the light on for you. Pulled out all the cards to see what discounts we could get, AAA, AARP, AmEX and so on and we ended up with a room for $37.50. Shower and a bed, Good Night!

Tuesday, November 22nd - I knew we would not make it home this night but hoped we would get close. We still had to decide whether we were going to stop and see the grandkids in Jackson, MO or if we were going to go south to Wichita. We made a call or two and decided to go south since the kids were coming to our house the next week. All of a sudden the amp gauge started going haywire. So I decided to stop at a parts store and have the alternator checked. Yes they said I had a problem but to make matters worse they did not have a replacement. They pointed me to an electrical shop and they checked it too and said it was not putting out a good voltage. He asked if I had any tools to pull it off and he would be able to repair it or replace it. I said yes and started to pull it. After a few minutes into the process I noticed a wire had come out of the terminal. He gave me a new connector and I crimped it on and he checked it again. It was putting out a little better, about 13.5 volts so we decided to go on. No other problems that day and we made it to Fort Smith, AR to a 24 hour Wal-Mart. This night I could not get the camper heater working right so we reverted back to the Coleman heater and spent another cold night but not quite as bad as it was the first night out.

Wednesday, November 23 - Got up and went to start the truck and noticed a puddle under the engine compartment and realized it was coolant. Opened the hood and saw it was dripping from the water pump. I had water and antifreeze in the camper so I filled the radiator and decided to head home but would check at a parts store just in case. The water pump for a 292 is different from the 194, 230 and 250 because of the block height and it was of course a special order item. Well we only had 300 miles to go and we headed out. Everything was going fine, the temp gauge was reading good, amp meter was reading good and we made it. Pulled into our driveway at 12:30pm on Wednesday, just a little later than we had anticipated.
We had a great adventure and both enjoyed the trip even with the minor problems. We are very happy with the truck and have decided to keep the camper and use it. I had thought about selling it (camper) when we got home but had such a good time we plan to have a few more adventures. The old truck runs great and after I make a few changes it should be even more fun to drive. Maybe next time my wife will be able to spell me a little more. She only put 100 of the 2400 miles we traveled on this return trip.

Drive an OLD TRUCK and see America !!
It's a LOT of FUN !!!

[Fred T]

Now that's a truck adventure. Thanks for sharing. Wish I had known you were going through Wichita, I would have waved when you went by!

[Lgriffin]

Sounds like a great time! If it wasn't for color you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between or trucks. You did all the right things, like changing the fluids, before heading home. The 10 plys are a good idea with that big camper on the back. Yep,,, drop down a gear or two, but haven't found a grade yet couldn't pull at 35 mph, regardless of the load. I run three sway bars on my truck one in front two in the back. The third one was just lying around, so why not. They do help keep the roll down. I hope that has power brakes on it, I couldn't see it in the pictures. Power steering? Luck was with you on the fuel pump. When mine went out the way I found out was the oil was over full. I have a problem keeping my heater lit, looks like it could be the same as yours Hydro something. 65 was pushing that 292 right along, probably around three grand. Looks like you've got a great truck and the camper is fun, once your set it up. Another thanks for the story.
Larry
ps Just saw the air conditioner(?) nice.

[decodan]

Hey,
Thanks for the comments. Larry, how about a p[icture of your truck?

No there is no power on the truck but brakes are one of the things I plan right away. I went to the junk yard on Friday and got a power booster and master and plan to do that in the next week or so. I also want to change the rear gears. I have a hei on the way too.

Does anyone know what the original rear gears would be on a 63 C-20 with 292 and 4 speed trans. I was hoping to change to something in the low 3s if that can be done without changinmg the carrier. Also some time in the future I would like to go to the 700r transmission since it has the best of both worlds with a low first gear and a good highway gear.
Thanks again, Dan

[Lgriffin]

Here's a picture of my truck. [can't tell if I got the link right from the preview]

"http://www.earthlink.net/~lggriffin/images/my63c20-.jpg"

An HEI does improve starts and performance a bit, I have one on mine. IMHO power brakes are a must with a big camper on the back, saved my but at least once. There are several things to consider when switching trannys. You have an emergency brake on the back of the 4 spd now. You won't be able to put that e-brake on the 700, so look for a under dash e-brake lever, cables and backing plates. The center hump inside unbolts over the tranny, might want to find one with out the cut outs for shift and e-brake.
The rear end you have is probably an Eaton (removeable pumpkin) and the ratio is 4.56 maybe 4.10. The gear selection is not good, I've heard of an after market 3.93, which is the best you can do with the Eaton.
Larry

[Fred T]

Gears could be 4.56 or 5.14 if you have the stock 10 bolt Eaton rear. Count the number of bolts holding on the rear cover, it will be either 10 or 12.

For the 10 bolt, you have limited options.

1. Find a 10 bolt with 4.10 gears, swap out the pumpkin (center section). If you can find one, this is the easiest and cheapest upgrade.

2. 3.90 gear sets are now available. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=181382

3. Replace the differential with a 14 bolt full floater. 3.73 gears are avaiable at most any junkyard, some of the newer have 3.42. Requires welding on your spring perches and shock mounts. I'm not fond of the boxy shape of the cover. Somewhere here I read that the 14 bolt carrier will work in a 10 bolt housing, but you must use the 14 bolt axles. Only problem there is getting the right axle length.

[decodan]

Hey Guys,
Thanks again! Yes it is a 10 bolt. I also thought about the e-brake.

Sounds like I might just as well do the Ford 9" swap. I can probably get one the right width and then I can pick the gearing I want or need. I know I probably should not think Ford but everyone knows they are bullet proof and there is plenty of stuff available for them and then that way i would have the e-brake system for when it is time to change the tranny.
Thanks, Dan

[decodan]

Hey Larry,

I could not get the picture from the link.
Dan

[Lgriffin]

I had to get ready for work so I couldn't fool with link. here it goes again.



Ok, got it this time.

Needs paint and I'm going to replace the camper as soon as I get done with the next 292.
Larry

[Lgriffin]

Fred, as I understand it there are 2 Eatons, HO52 and HO72. Are you saying the HO52 is 10 bolt and the HO72 is 14 bolt? I've read that they used these for quite a few years. Hope I've got this right a 67 has the same width rear axle as the earlier 60s trucks, 68-72 is wider by about 1-2 inches, and 73 up is wider by that much again. I put a 73 in my 68 and it was wider. btw I think Dan and I have coils, at least I do.
Larry

[decodan]

Hey Guys,
Larry nice looking truck. Is that one of those side steps on your truck or is that where they put a saddle tank filler neck. Mine has the two saddle tanks with the filler neck high on the front of the bed on both sides.

Yes, I have coils on the back of mine. I can't wait to see how it rides without the camper on it.
So what I have figured about the rear gears is I am doing about 3142 rpm if I figure 65 mph with a 31.72 diameter tire and 1:1 final trans gear with a 4.56 rear gear. If I go to the 3.9 rear gear it will only drop to 2687. The big change will be putting in the 700r4 trans which should drop the rpm to about 1881 in overdrive.

So my thinking would be to save the $350 on the new set of 3.90 rear gears and do the 700r4 trans change and I would be doing about 2200 rpm at 65mph with the original 4.56 gears. If by some chance I have the 4.11 gears it would be 1982 rpm.

Either way those are numbers I can learn to like. Right now I have a 700r4 in my 54 sedan delivery and a 3.08 posi and it turns about 1826rpm at 65 mph. Of course the 54 has the 350 which can handle more rs than the long stroke 292.

Thanks again for all the info and help, I do have a few other questions but will ask later. Dan

[Lgriffin]

Nope those aren't steps, filler holes for the side tanks, they are on both sides. Those holes are another fix to be done in the future. The PO had 16.5 rims on the back and flared the rear fenders and added some bracing to clear. btw before I forget again. If your going to leave that camper on for any lenght of of time and out in the rain. When you did get the camper off put some preservative on the wood. I use 50/50 turpentine and boiled linseed oil. Great stuff and cheap, just smells like your camping in the woods.
The numbers sound right. I'm not sure what your plans are for the 292, which could make a difference. My thoughts are I want to be under 2500, with margin for being in a hurry. I prefer Quadrajets, and the secondarys open at 2500. The 700r4 sounds real good. I wasn't in favor of the 3.xx gears. There is a lot of weight in that camper. When you get the camper off you will find the the bed is going to come up 2-3 inches. I think I know were a set of backing plates are for ours axles. It will cost some freight to get my hands on them. I've been putting it off, bebating with the idea of an 833 4 spd.
Larry

[decodan]

Hey,
Took the camper off today. The bed still has the original black paint on the bed boards and it looks like new. I'll try to get the tailgate on tomorrow.

I have to go get some concrete blocks to let the camper down on for safety. I got ot off in my storage so it will be out of the weather and out of my way.

I'll post a picture of the bed later.
Later, Dan

[decodan]

Hey,
Here is what the bed looks like. Dan

[Lgriffin]

Best original bed I've seen. Beats mine out. I'll have to think about cleaning the over spray off, next time the camper is off.
Larry

[Demmit_Hemmit's 65]

Great Travel Story....................did The Same Thing Last Year.........two Buddies Of Mine And I Flew To Phoenix Az To Pick Up A 71 Gmc Suburban And Drove It Back To Peru............yep.........buy An Old Truck To See The Usa........hemmit

[decodan]

Hey Hemmit,
I bet your trip was very interesting. We had freeway all the way. I'd like to hear about your adventure too. Dan