Vinyl Cedar Shingle Siding

[special-K]

I know,vinyl?These day people want to forget about routine maintainence,so it has it`s place for these people.Here in maryland it can be 10 below to 104 and either flood or drought.Wood,and especially today`s paints,can really take a beating.
These old folks wanted to slap some vinyl siding on their old house down in Baltimore,since they weren`t able to keep painting the 70 year old cedar shingles.I hate to see an old house lose it`s character and they seemed to feel the same way.The vinyl cedar shingle-look is expensive compared to clapboard-look vinyl and they had a tight budget.They had actually talked to me the year before,but after getting someone else`s price first they told me they had to save or another year.I dug up a lower cost product that actually would install about as easy as regular siding.The "good stuff" installs alot slower and more of a p.i.a.,which I have a hard time charging enough for since the material is already so high.
The siding I found came in a color very close to their existing one,which they said they really liked.So,for a bit more than they had planned on again,yet at a discount from me,we came to an agreement.

[msgross]

interesting product...

[special-K]

Ran out of time.Here`s some more before shots(I have alot of pictures):

[special-K]

I started on the dormars,they were having water problems.

[special-K]

[Mudder]

Man I bet they are tickled. Awesome job.

[special-K]

I replaced the white trim boards and mouldings with Azek syn-board (poly lumber).Those 1/2 round attic louvers are vinyl.I left the original varnished beaded t&g porch cielings.Under the porch arches I covered with vinyl beaded t&g and capped the edges with aluminum I bent.I don`t like tops of the columns where I used white "j" channel between the corners.But,the green they gave me I was way too deep off the house.I used it sparingly and actually split it down the middle and narrowed it where green was called or,like at the cielings and floors.I got lazy on the columns at the end and hoped the white would fly...Oh well,everybody said it looked fine when I offered to change it.

[msgross]

wow, what a facelift... are you a "one man show" Tim?

hope business picks up for you..

[Liz]

The house looks awesome Tim. Great Job.

[special-K]

Yeah,just a one man show.I kinda like it that way.I had my son help on the big tear-off days.I had to cut the wood shingles all along the top everywhere.The shingles ran behind the moulding that was already trimmed in aluminum that I couldn`t damage.And,the window/door trim needed trimmed off in all corners.There was metal flashing tacked all around the trim and I had to pick the little hardened tacks out so my blade wouldn`t get ruined.I did all this cutting with a Fein Multi-Master,if you`re familiar with those.If not,imagine a dremmel tool crossed with an engraver.It vibrates a blade side to side and you can cut into anywhere,like corners or things that have solid things behind them(framing behind plywood).But,it`s 2" at a time.

[68C15]

wow, that looks great! i was looking for the after pics when it hit me. "that IS vinyl"

BTW, is that by chance a Sears house?

edit; why the 2 different house wraps?

[Sub-versive]

Great looking job Tim!

How do you like that vinyl product?

Is it any better than the vinyl "lap" siding?

Was the customer already sold on this product?
Did they consider Hardy shingle preprimed and prepainted?

Just curious. Great looking job.

[special-K]

I like that siding way better than the lap siding.But,it`s actually the same thing.In the proper application it looks better.As far as being vinyl,it`s better than lap because of the verticle breaks both in visual and structural.This was as cheap as you can go with a shingle look.It`s a lighter gauge,doesn`t come varigated (shaded like woodgrain),and they don`t offer a "cornerless" piece (actually looks like no corner) where the shingles run around the corner with no board,like the original.It would have been nicer to have "jammed" & "cased" the openings on the porch.I would have used 1 x 12 on the sides and trimmed in 5/4 x 4 (like windows),including arches.
The Hardy Plank is catching on,but around here many just stop listening when you say "paint".Even pre-finish doesn`t matter to some.It`s used where you wouldn`t expect to see vinyl and being offered in place of vinyl on some tract housing.I like it.We`ll see how father time treats it.Masonite turned out no good around here.Cement fiber took over that market,first.It`s replacing cedar on many homes,too.

[67ChevyRedneck]

To be honest, at least in the pics, I can't really tell the difference! That's the perfect look for that house. Good job

I'll bet they wished they had done this years ago

[special-K]

I was surprised how close the color was.The house had been many colors over the years.I don`t know if these were Sears houses,but it was a development and most houses were a variation of this type and a couple others here and there.They were all cedar shingle with slate roofs and at least one stained glass window.This one`s stained glass was gone,but it was one of the few still not remodeled.The ones who recently had their`s remodeled said they wished they knew about this stuff.In better times I`m sure I would have grabbed a few other jobs off this one.Hopefully my number will still be around when someone`s ready.

Oh yeah,no reason for diferent house wraps.I had a roll of the green Amoco stuff I had cut in half that I used up on the dormar.I prefer the Tyvek and my second is Typar,if they still make it.All the other basketweave stuff gets on my nerves.I don`t think it`s as good of a product and cutting it sucks with the strands unravelling.

[Sub-versive]

Just curious to see what folks on the other side of the country are doing.
Just like when I moved to SoCal and asked wholesalers for hot-dipped galvanized ring-shanked roofing nails to fit my Senco gun and got laughed at. The VP of the company tells me I'm the first person to ask for them, ever, in 20+ years of them being in business.

Have you (Tim) used the cement fiber products over there?
Factory finished Hardi products have a 25 year warranty on them. Unfortunately the job I was going to use it on lost their funding, so I never got the chance to compare. The preprimed stuff is nice, but I guess people are getting lazier nowadays.


In fact Fine Homebuilding had an article on it last summer I believe.
Here is what I found online:
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuild...x?nterms=65818

[special-K]

Oops...haven`t looked here in awhile.
Heh heh,yeah,I`ve worked in california and a few other places around the country.Things can really vary.
I`ve done a good bit of cement fiber.I like it so far.I hope it stands the test.I`ve been using it or about 10 years.As an installer,I prefer the primed.The stuff is heavy and some cuts can be fragile and awkward.Combine that with getting it up to wherever it goes and worrying about the finish.It`s alot to ask.I`m old fashioned and like it painted in place.There`s lifetime paint.I like prime,install,caulk,paint better than prime,paint,install,caulk.Caulk holds up alot better with paint on it,I think.All the cuts get painted over,not just the ends touched up.It`s real quick and easy to paint.I see painters use those little 8" rollers and a brush to paint a house in no time.
Is the white plastic trim board being used out there or is it still all wood?

[Frizzle Fry]

wow, looks great!

[Sub-versive]

Originally Posted by special-K

Oops...haven`t looked here in awhile.
Heh heh,yeah,I`ve worked in california and a few other places around the country.Things can really vary.
I`ve done a good bit of cement fiber.I like it so far.I hope it stands the test.I`ve been using it or about 10 years.As an installer,I prefer the primed.The stuff is heavy and some cuts can be fragile and awkward.Combine that with getting it up to wherever it goes and worrying about the finish.It`s alot to ask.I`m old fashioned and like it painted in place.There`s lifetime paint.I like prime,install,caulk,paint better than prime,paint,install,caulk.Caulk holds up alot better with paint on it,I think.All the cuts get painted over,not just the ends touched up.It`s real quick and easy to paint.I see painters use those little 8" rollers and a brush to paint a house in no time.
Is the white plastic trim board being used out there or is it still all wood?

I agree The job I planned on using the prepainted stuff was still going to get a site painted matching color, for the vary reason you stated- the caulking needs a finish cover to last.


YesI have used Azek once, most folks are too cheap to use it since it is so expensive. Most jobs still use wood.

[Jvsapp]

Originally Posted by special-K

I did all this cutting with a Fein Multi-Master,if you`re familiar with those.If not,imagine a dremmel tool crossed with an engraver.It vibrates a blade side to side and you can cut into anywhere,like corners or things that have solid things behind them(framing behind plywood).But,it`s 2" at a time.

i saw those infomercials about it. i was thinking of getting one for auto work. like scraping off undercoating. i was wondering if it would cut metal like fender lowers etc.

but the vinyl is awesome. is that single singles? or sheets? any pictures of the actual part before it goes on the wall? i'm sure that's a done deal. no more maintenance for them till they pass.

[special-K]

I can get a picture of the siding panel(custom-order and I have leftover).It`s a 7" exposure single coarse at 10' long.So,basically goes up like any lap-style vinyl.The more expensive vinyl shingle/shakes go up in double rows on a 4' panel that locks on the bottom and the lap.They make corner shingles for a more authentic look.I did a nice little cabin,but it`s in the woods so you can`t get back for a good picture.
Those Multimasters do it all.Just bare in mind it`s small and light.They are the only way for finess.But somethings would be like using a 16oz hammer where you need a sledge hammer.You can do it,but the proper tool makes it a breeze.I had to cut under every overhang.that`s upper and lower on each side,inner and outter porch,as well as upper and lower back.That`s 2" at a time.It was grueling.I originally planned to split and pull the cedar shingles out rom under the aluminum trim.I would not have been able to do it w/o rippling the aluminum.I couldn`t run a skil saw across it either.It would have made a mess and not make the clean line I needed.

That Azek is crazy expensive.I was doing this builder who used it by the truckload.We`d order 18' sheets of 5/4 to make wider facias/freizes.I`d cut it right on the pallet.There was no way it could be moved by people.That stuff i great with one downfall that I see at this point...expansion and contraction.I irst put it up with mitred joints.But,when it warms up the board pushes past the other.Azek said don`t mitre.I use their adhesive now and I guess it`s better.I also pyrmid my nails at the joints,nail through both pieces,as well as sink some stainless finish screws near the joints.I also use contruction adhesive on the sub-frame alot.The first job I did looked great walking away.Then,tit moved and all these joints I mitred on these raised panel columns opened up...sheesh!
I HATE the saw dust(if you want to call it that).

Talking about cement fiber siding.Vinyl is still the mainstay and cement fiber is an upscale.What I don`t like is people want to pay Cedar siding labor when it should cost more.It`s harder to handle,you can`t just stock up on the scaffold,it`s a big deal just moving materials around the job,window cuts want to break under their own weight...Every time a new product comes out the extra cost is expected to be saved through the labor when it should be the time to actually raise a price or once.The sellers just igure buyers can ind someone cheaper and cheaper.So,you end up with a good product installed by scabs which ends up with a poor product in the end.
I have those sheers they make for cement fiber.They are the same as poer shears or metal,just spaced wider or the thicker material.No dust!

[Sub-versive]

No dust is very important when working with cement fiber products! Last thing anyone needs is silicatosis.
The fiber shears do work great, But I still wear a mask when working with it.
If I did more work with it, I'd spring for an air operated shear.
PacTool International makes good tools for working with it.
Here is where I bought some of mine from:
http://www.northwestpowertools.com/t...cificshear.htm

I know this stuff gained popularity in the NW after the LP siding debacle in late 80's/early 90's. As a result it is pretty much all you'll find here, with the exception of the "low rent" housing projects which still use vinyl.

[Jvsapp]

that's awesome. i would think they were like the cedar shingles. but they install like normal vinyl sheets. all i can say is it still has the look and even though the corners have the metal strips, it still looks awesome to me.

[special-K]

When I got my shears there weren`t too many choices.I went with Kett Tools cutters,if you`ve heard of them.I got them through the Tool Crib.The first job I used a circular saw and swore I`d never do another job.The dust was aweful.I don`t see a saw motor lasting long in that abrasive dust.I definately saw a need for lung protection right away.

Jvsapp,It is a nice product to install and very nice looking.Using cornerboards would be another option with real cedar shingles.So,it looks ok with them.

[GOPAPA]

Originally Posted by special-K

I know,vinyl?These day people want to forget about routine maintainence,so it has it`s place for these people.Here in maryland it can be 10 below to 104 and either flood or drought.Wood,and especially today`s paints,can really take a beating.
These old folks wanted to slap some vinyl siding on their old house down in Baltimore,since they weren`t able to keep painting the 70 year old cedar shingles.I hate to see an old house lose it`s character and they seemed to feel the same way.The vinyl cedar shingle-look is expensive compared to clapboard-look vinyl and they had a tight budget.They had actually talked to me the year before,but after getting someone else`s price first they told me they had to save or another year.I dug up a lower cost product that actually would install about as easy as regular siding.The "good stuff" installs alot slower and more of a p.i.a.,which I have a hard time charging enough for since the material is already so high.
The siding I found came in a color very close to their existing one,which they said they really liked.So,for a bit more than they had planned on again,yet at a discount from me,we came to an agreement.

I just knew you did good work Tim and the proof is in the pudding as they say and these pictures tell all.. great job and the kind of job that gives satisfaction..

This job is one that the wife of the owner will say something like this to you in front of her husband "" Now, why couldn't of I married a Carpenter instead of Computer Genius ''.. Now tell me you don't get this from time to time? LOL